OutRun 2 Video

[maskrider]

Not to be argumentative with V3, but OutRun appears to be today's idea of fun too if its popularity with arcades is anything to go by.

And arcade is no where as popular as when the day of Daytona. Look at NFSU sales, and wonder why Sega doesn't have million seller for their racing games. Something they were King, back then, now they've fallen. They've never really capitalise on it and the sad thing is, they could have easily.

Yes, same opionion as mine. I see nothing new except the updated graphics. It is the same old Outrun to me.

 

[Tagrineth]

Wipeout Fusion is quite smooth, too, you know.

Of all examples you could find... WP has some serious slowdowns at times.

Granted. But it's more often VERY smooth. It does sample physics at 120Hz, after all...

 

[Fafalada]

Granted. But it's more often VERY smooth. It does sample physics at 120Hz, after all...

Although it may sound like that matters - it actually doesn't.
As long as the physics is sampled at same or higher rate as the refresh rate of the renderer, the smootness won't be any different no matter how high you go.

That said it's pretty common practice for most racing games to sample their pyhsics (or parts of it) at higher(and more importantly independant of the game's framerate)rates, to ensure calculation accuracy.
Spring modelled stuff typically goes in hundreds to get a nice behaviour(in AX, suspensions and most of the internal car dynamics runs at 240hz), while you can usually get away running rigid body modelling much lower (afaik 30hz can still suffice for good behaviour, not sure if lower then that would still work good - but I am not an expert in the field).

 

[function]

That's all. Nothing less, nothing more. If you or Lazy think this game somehow "sets new standard for the gaming world", then that is your opinion and i respect that. I just do not agree in the least with it.

I never said that, and after re-reading my posts can't see where you think this was the point I was trying to make. Still, this is the internet, and miscommunications in multi threaded discussions are commonplace!

I disagree about stress relief part though - it's probably just me personally but I always get more frustration then stress relief from playing arcade games

I find the same. I often feel either skanked, or (mildly) frustrated that I can't afford to shovel another pound into the slot. Arcade games in the home normally don't quite create quite the same buzz (knowing you can go back to them whenever you like), even if the gameplay makes it intact. Not that it stops me buying them, of course.

 

[Lazy8s]

marconelly!:

all we can see is this artificially antialiased result, which is still cheating if you want go 'by the book'.

There's nothing artificial about resizing - the definition in the image is not altered when its size is scaled. Its the same effect as sitting at a different distance from the screen; it's only the appearance of the pixel size that's changing in both cases.

Detail that's been down-sized is less apparent, as will any of its flaws naturally be.

 

[Lazy8s]

As an addition to the above: Of course the nature of the digital medium is to use discrete building blocks, so some sampling is unavoidable to make it look right when resizing.

 

[marconelly!]

There's nothing artificial about resizing - the definition in the image is not altered when its size is scaled. Its the same effect as sitting at a different distance from the screen; it's only the appearance of the pixel size that's changing in both cases.

I'm just saying, it's kinda pointless to praise the image quality of the picture (you did that in your first post) when you can't really see the image quality, due to scaling.

 

[Lazy8s]

london-boy:

If you personally think this is the second coming of gaming, then fine, i'll be playing other real games instead.
The same thing happened with PDO. You flashed out your 10000 big words on how this game was God's gift to humanity, when the fact still remains: It is a VERY VERY pretty interactive cut-scene.
Same here, Outrun is a decently pretty no-brainer-racing game. Enough for 30 minutes of gaming at best, then most of us (the ones who don't pray to Sega's God to descend from the sky) will go back to playing games that make our brain work, even if it is Burnout2.

I don't think you understand what 'depth' means for games. Depth is the scope of strategies you can use for a game's challenge. To survive the assualt in Panzer Dragoon Orta, for example, you have a whole range of options: attacking groups of enemies with various strength lock-on missiles, getting the stragglers with rapid fire guns, shooting down scatterings of projectiles with dispersed gun fire, breaking close enemy lines with a melee thrust, and clearing the field with a superbomb or concentrating it into a beam instead to cut a swath of destruction; defending against enemies or obstacles with evasive flying maneuvers, losing their pursuit with accelerations/decelerations, and healing yourself by absorbing enemy health; and positioning yourself to take advantage of enemies and their weak spots by overtaking, dropping behind, or circling them.

 

[London Geezer]

Trust me, i know what "depth" means. I have been playing games since the Commodore64, I have no names-obsessions, I am not a graphic-whore, I do not buy games because of the name of who made them or because of how pretty they look, and i know what a deep game is. Thank you.
Maybe you want to really read other people's posts, at the end of the day we have to read your 8000-word essays on how "deep" PDO is, or on how Outrun2 "sets new standards for smoothness", to name but a few...
Just give us all a break, Lazy.

 

[V3]

Gamespy Interview with AM2's Makoto Osaki.

GameSpy: The original Outrun was a game that was fun because it was very easy to learn how to play and simple to operate. Many driving games now are a lot more complex. How did this change affect development decisions for Outrun 2?

Mr. Osaki: Well, a lot of the driving games out there nowadays are very complex. Stuff like Gran Turismo, Battle Gear, Initial D ... I think these games certainly have a place, but they also alienate a player who isn't interested in such complexities. They also take a lot of time and money to get into. With Outrun 2, we just wanted to make a game that would be easy for anyone to sit down, learn, get into, and enjoy. It's kind of going against the current market trends, but I think that the audience it finds will enjoy it.

GameSpy: Most of AM2's newest arcade games have been on Chihiro hardware. What do you think of this system?

Mr. Osaki: Basically, we've been going with the Chihiro hardware because it's the most powerful out there, even more so than the Naomi 2, and its cost is similar. On a pure cost to performance basis, Chihiro gives the most bang for the buck.

More here

 

[chapban.]

WoW! Xbox hardware is really cool i guess. Maybe boring PC parts, but cool nonetehless. Please talented developers tap the sucker for more for more more more!

 

[notAFanB]

a quote on that quote

On a pure cost to performance basis, Chihiro gives the most bang for the buck.

I've always wondered about that, surely the Chihiro board should be more cost effective and offer better performence in the long run.

anyone got the cost estimates for these baords, for an comparison?

 

[London Geezer]

a quote on that quote

On a pure cost to performance basis, Chihiro gives the most bang for the buck.

I've always wondered about that, surely the Chihiro board should be more cost effective and offer better performence in the long run.

anyone got the cost estimates for these baords, for an comparison?

I assume the cost will be vastly inflated by the fact that it is an Arcade board, but when you think about it, it's an Xbox in a big (YEAH, EVEN BIGGER) box.

Just like the System 246 is just a PS2 in a bigger box.

The price will be much higher, but the cost of manufacturing it will only be marginally more than the original console.

I guess they need to make a big profit on those few boards sold, therefore they can put the price to orders of magnitude the original manufacturing cost. Without even counting the profit on the long run from arcade use...


PS: of course the fact that you get a big fat display with the arcade board brings the price up.....

 

[Lazy8s]

That interview provides some insight:

Osaki references the Naomi 2 as a benchmark for high performance, gauging Chihiro's impressiveness from the viewpoint of its power being "even more so than the Naomi 2". What's revealing is the mention that the boards are similar in cost, meaning the system that the Dreamcast partners made back in early 2000 was on a comparable level to Xbox.

With OutRun 2 succeeding ahead of SEGA's projections in arcades, they do appear, indeed, to still be re-evaluating the potential of its home release plans. There's still hope we could get the ports we want then, if the worldwide branches of the company can manage to work some deals out.

 

[Fox5]

Gamespy Interview with AM2's Makoto Osaki.

GameSpy: The original Outrun was a game that was fun because it was very easy to learn how to play and simple to operate. Many driving games now are a lot more complex. How did this change affect development decisions for Outrun 2?

Mr. Osaki: Well, a lot of the driving games out there nowadays are very complex. Stuff like Gran Turismo, Battle Gear, Initial D ... I think these games certainly have a place, but they also alienate a player who isn't interested in such complexities. They also take a lot of time and money to get into. With Outrun 2, we just wanted to make a game that would be easy for anyone to sit down, learn, get into, and enjoy. It's kind of going against the current market trends, but I think that the audience it finds will enjoy it.

GameSpy: Most of AM2's newest arcade games have been on Chihiro hardware. What do you think of this system?

Mr. Osaki: Basically, we've been going with the Chihiro hardware because it's the most powerful out there, even more so than the Naomi 2, and its cost is similar. On a pure cost to performance basis, Chihiro gives the most bang for the buck.

More here

Assuming arcade costs are similar to home, does this mean that Chihiro is more than 80% more powerful than triforce?

 

[Lazy8s]

Good news in SEGA's most recent financial results, from Reuters:

"We managed to offset the weaker-than-expected performance from our consumer games division with stronger-than-expected profits from our amusement games," said Sega's corporate officer Shoichi Yamazaki.

Sega said it now expected profits from its arcade games to total 11.5 billion yen this business year, up 15 percent from an earlier 10 billion yen estimate.

One notable arcade game success was "OutRun 2", a sequel in the legendary racing game series.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=financeConews&storyID=4289248&pageNumber=1

This is significant because the arcade games usually noteworthy to SEGA's arcade success are not the standard videogames you're used to (with the monster exception of the Virtua Fighter series), but actually their prize/card machines, print booths, and hybrid cabinets (games like World Club Champion Football Serie A 2001-2002, UFO Catcher, Derby Owners Club, The Key of Avalon, etc.)

Here's a mini of OutRun 2's driver viewpoint:

 

[Ug Lee]

The same thing happened with PDO. You flashed out your 10000 big words on how this game was God's gift to humanity, when the fact still remains: It is a VERY VERY pretty interactive cut-scene.

To label PDO a very pretty interactive cut-scene is to miss the point entirely.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I will be very upset, annoyed, displeased, etc. if both OutRun 2 and the much older Daytona 2 get snubbed by Sega for home release.

a PS2 adaption of OutRun 2 just won't cut the mustard.


Xbox, and possibly Gamecube, is where both games need to land. safely home. unbutchered.

 

[Megadrive1988]

That interview provides some insight:

Osaki references the Naomi 2 as a benchmark for high performance, gauging Chihiro's impressiveness from the viewpoint of its power being "even more so than the Naomi 2". What's revealing is the mention that the boards are similar in cost, meaning the system that the Dreamcast partners made back in early 2000 was on a comparable level to Xbox.

not to make a direct, precise comparison, it seems that NAOMI 2's twin PowerVR2DC rasterizers combined with the ELAN geometry & lighting chip and seperate memory pools, is very very roughly on par with Xbox's NV2A and shared memory in terms of performance. although Xbox is still somewhat more powerful, according to what he said. then, the 200 Mhz Hitachi SH-4 (same as DC) is probably comparable to the 733 Mhz Intel in terms of FP power. NAOMI 2 has more memory, Xbox has more raw power. both probably balance out to some degree. the PowerVR2 is more capable/more efficient than its specs imply, while the NV2A is somewhat less impressive given its monsterous specs. if anyone disagrees, that's fine. I'm not making an exact comparison here. just noting that both platforms are very roughly on a similar level.

With OutRun 2 succeeding ahead of SEGA's projections in arcades, they do appear, indeed, to still be re-evaluating the potential of its home release plans. There's still hope we could get the ports we want then, if the worldwide branches of the company can manage to work some deals out.

indeed there is hope. though, even if OutRun 2 does come home, there are many Sega arcade games that haven't and deserve to. I feel Sega needs to play to its strengths more, while not taking massive risks on unproven types of games. what i am saying here can certainly be taken many different ways by different people.

 

[Lazy8s]

Those are reasonable perspectives. Nothing offensive about differing opinions.

The striking aspect of Naomi 2 performance to me is the complexity sustainable for T&L. The arcade version of VF4 has more detailed backgrounds and uses characters that have double the polygon count of the PS2 version, all the while under substantially more complex lighting conditions. The Xbox might not even compare favorably in sustainable T&L for similar conditions.