Oculus Rift and Facebook data mining *spawn

[Infinisearch]

Maybe I should make a new thread for this but for now I'll stick it here.
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/...and-privacy-policy-may-be-a-cause-for-concern
Oculus seems to have an always on component that allows both facebook and third parties to gather information on you.

 

[eastmen]

Maybe I should make a new thread for this but for now I'll stick it here.
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/...and-privacy-policy-may-be-a-cause-for-concern
Oculus seems to have an always on component that allows both facebook and third parties to gather information on you.

I hate to break this to you but so does steam and most other software you have


For example HTC's TOS
http://www.htc.com/us/terms/privacy/

When you visit our websites, information we may automatically log includes, for example, your operating system, Internet Protocol (IP) address, access times, browser type and language and the website that you visited before visiting our website. When you use our devices, download and use our applications, or access the Services from your device, we may also log information related to your device and your use of our applications and Services. We may log, for example, the date you activate your device, your location, phone number, device type, serial number, device identifiers (e.g., IMEI, MEID, serial number, CID, MID and MCC ID Number or SIM card ID), the types and versions of mobile operating systems on your device, applications and software you install and use and how you use them, content you view or use and time-stamped logs of data exchanges.

And here is steam on cheating

Steam and the Content and Services may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Content and Services or modifications of Content and Services (“Cheats”). You agree that you will not create Cheats or assist third parties in any way to create or use Cheats. You agree that you will not directly or indirectly disable, circumvent, or otherwise interfere with the operation of software designed to prevent or report the use of Cheats. You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Content and Services. Further, you acknowledge and agree that an online multiplayer host may report your use of Cheats to Valve, and Valve may communicate your history of use of Cheats to other online multiplayer hosts. Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so.

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

and

We may also share de-identified or aggregate data with others for any purpose. De-identified data means information where we have removed your name or contact information. Aggregate data is data that has been combined with other data so that it doesn't identify any specific person.

Vive also supports connecting a cell phone via Bluetooth to it. So your phone be it sony , Samsung , htc , apple will be able to collect data on anything it wants through the headset also.


Its 2016 and people carry around a device that is always listening via audio and video along with keeping a constant tab on everything you access via it. Yet people are concerned with a vr headset

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The article says Facebook allows third parties to access the data. In contrast, the phone you carry around isn't open for anyone to tap into, nor is Steam. Unless you have a privacy policy statement from Apple/Sony/Samsung etc saying they allow third parties to listen in on your conversations, or evidence that this is allowed without notifying users of as much, the situation regards Oculus is something different.

 

[Otto Dafe]

I hate to break this to you but so does steam and most other software you have


For example HTC's TOS
http://www.htc.com/us/terms/privacy/




And here is steam on cheating

and



Vive also supports connecting a cell phone via Bluetooth to it. So your phone be it sony , Samsung , htc , apple will be able to collect data on anything it wants through the headset also.


Its 2016 and people carry around a device that is always listening via audio and video along with keeping a constant tab on everything you access via it. Yet people are concerned with a vr headset

That's kind of like saying that if you don't lock your front door you shouldn't lock your car either. Is it your thinking that one should always compromise one's privacy to the degree of the most heinous software / ToS they have thus far signed on to? If somebody with an Oculus bought a new phone from a (strictly hypothetical) manufacturer that didn't horribly violate their privacy, should they then reconsider whether Facebook / Oculus are out of line? Or is it futile anyway, and privacy should just be surrendered to any vendor of gadgets that wants it, now and in perpetuity?

Also, not to defend Valve, but I don't think Steam installs a service.

 

[Infinisearch]

Also found this through neogaf :

http://gizmodo.com/there-are-some-super-shady-things-in-oculus-rifts-terms-1768678169

It implies facebook occulus gets rights to creative content forever.

 

[eastmen]

The article says Facebook allows third parties to access the data. In contrast, the phone you carry around isn't open for anyone to tap into, nor is Steam. Unless you have a privacy policy statement from Apple/Sony/Samsung etc saying they allow third parties to listen in on your conversations, or evidence that this is allowed without notifying users of as much, the situation regards Oculus is something different.

Have you looked at phone app permissions they ask for access to everything . For example the facebook messenger app used to listen in on conversations

Have you read what I quoted from HTC's TOS that you replied too ?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Have you looked at phone app permissions they ask for access to everything.

Often to enable a feature you need to opt in to a service that allows things you've no interest in. I've had to ask all sorts of permissions for mobile games I've written without any interest in them, just to enable adverts and leaderboards and the like. Asking for permissions to access your phone number doesn't mean an app is taking that data.

For example the facebook messenger app used to listen in on conversations

Yes, Facebook. That's the company we're talking about here wanting to listen in on everyone. You can't use Facebook's policy on mobile as evidence that everyone else is constantly spying on us!

Have you read what I quoted from HTC's TOS that you replied too ?

Usual anonymous, impersonal data collection. Where does it say HTC listens in on conversations or reads texts?

 

[orangpelupa]

Hmm I guess I'll install oculus home and made a simple host blocking batch file. Probably the service will still works fine even if it's spy feature disabled.

Edit
Carp. I'm out of town and forgot to bring my tablet. Blah.

 

[eastmen]

Often to enable a feature you need to opt in to a service that allows things you've no interest in. I've had to ask all sorts of permissions for mobile games I've written without any interest in them, just to enable adverts and leaderboards and the like. Asking for permissions to access your phone number doesn't mean an app is taking that data.
Yes, Facebook. That's the company we're talking about here wanting to listen in on everyone. You can't use Facebook's policy on mobile as evidence that everyone else is constantly spying on us!

Usual anonymous, impersonal data collection. Where does it say HTC listens in on conversations or reads texts?

It doesn't have to say it will listen in on conversations or read texts , the way it is written allows them to do so if they want too.

Most apps ask for permissions they don't need. I've seen games asking for access to your call list , email programs and the like.

 

[upnorthsox]

It doesn't have to say it will listen in on conversations or read texts , the way it is written allows them to do so if they want too.

....NSA surveillance policy.

 

[tabs]

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4ddj1g/what_oculus_network_traffic_contains/

There have been quite a few people analysing the traffic the last few days and none of them have found anything suspect.

 

[idsn6]

Contrary to Palmer Luckey's prior assertions (quelle surprise), Oculus is now pushing DRM that specifically prevents interoperability with Vive or other headsets.

 

[hughJ]

I don't think there's enough significant content on the Oculus store for it to be considered a huge loss to Vive owners for the near future, and I suspect that once Oculus gets Touch content rolling out that simple API interoperability hacks will no longer be sufficient for a good user experience anyways. IMO we're still in the same position that we were before this revelation - we need to wait for the fallout of these product launches to settle before either company is going to make any new longstanding commitments or course corrections. Right now Oculus has their hands full with a misfired HMD launch and what will be an effective relaunch of their platform with Touch. If Oculus were seriously considering introducing official Vive support (which there's a lot of good reasons for) then that's really something that should happen after they've got their own products sorted out.

 

[manux]

Oculus tries to address some of the privacy concerns. Take it as you will

http://uploadvr.com/oculus-responds-senator-al-frankens-privacy-concerns/

 

[Silent_Buddha]

... along with the spyware in the driver and shit like that.

You do realize that just by using a phone, companies gather more information from you than Oculus? Apps gather information from you. The OS gathers even more information from you. Even the carrier you use harvests information from you.

You also realize that just by browsing the internet many companies harvest far more information about you than Oculus? Hell, game launchers (UBIsoft, EA, Valve, etc.) harvest as much or more information from you than Oculus. Game consoles harvest more information about what you do than Oculus.

And most of the time it's just there in order to provide functionality that the user desires or likes as opposed to not having the capability of providing that functionality. IE - the functionality requires data from certain activities and inputs as well as sometimes needing access to larger databases available online that cannot be stored locally.

If you're going to be paranoid about what data is being used for Oculus. You're going to need to be paranoid about everything in the world that you come into contact with. Heck, just using a credit card when you go shopping gives every company (and their partners) that you shop at information about you. If you pay for something through Apple, Google, Paypal, your bank, etc. you're providing information about you and your spending habits to them.

Have you ever participated in a sweepstake online or in real life in order to have a chance to win something for free? Yup, you just got your information harvested and also given them the right to share whatever information they got from you (address, phone number, email address, name, etc.) with whomever they wish.

Regards,
SB

 

[Grall]

You do realize that just by using a phone, companies gather more information from you than Oculus?

How is that even approaching any form of excuse?! I buy an expensive toy, and it fucking spies on me? I mean... What IS that? It's bullshit, that's what it is. And so is your argument there, by the way.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The problem is your definition of spying. Just like many products that you use, Oculus uses the data they get from the device to improve the user experience of their users.

I also find it amusing that you're so concerned with the rather insignificant "spying" that Oculus does compared to the far larger amount of "spying" that is being done on you by devices and software that you use daily. Many of which contain far more personal usage data than Oculus.

Regards,
SB

 

[manux]

Oculus is really managed to shoot their own foot: http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/23/oculus-drm-vr-piracy/

Over the weekend, the team behind Revive has released a new version that not only avoids Oculus' hardware check, it bypasses the part that confirms ownership of the software altogether -- raising concerns it could be used for piracy.

If this topic could be extended to be a bit more than just data mining I would like to comment on the business practices of oculus. It's just fine to lock out other vendors from content oculus paid for. On the other hand me as a consumer has equal right not to then buy said content.

I haven't yet bought anything from oculus store. Most interesting content is available from steam. Steam purchases loose a bit of conveniene as they don't integrate to oculus home but I can live with that. Especially when I know if I ever replace oculus hw with some other brand my paid content will keep working.

If oculus ever locks steam purchases out of rift that will make me jump the ships real fast... even if there was significant quality difference between oculus and competition(there isn't) I wouldn't keep using rift.

 

[Ethatron]

If oculus ever locks steam purchases out of rift that will make me jump the ships real fast... even if there was significant quality difference between oculus and competition(there isn't) I wouldn't keep using rift.

How about Steam locking out Rifts?

 

[manux]

How about Steam locking out Rifts?

I doubt that would happen. But if that does happen I might go with (evil) steam anyway as it's the ecosystem I'm invested in for my pc gaming content.