Because if you want a CPU faster than 3.4GHz, you need one of those two new sockets, and if you're getting a new board it may as well be PCIE. Of course there are also folks like me who are only just updating to 2.XGHz AthlonXP rigs, but we won't be buying 6800s anyway.Joe DeFuria said:
nVIDIA's "SLI" solution
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Joe, I am not debating the fact that for someone in your situation it doesn't make sense.
But for those that want SLI and are planning an upgrade it's no biggie. I'm on a 2600+ Nforce2 9800PRO setup. I will be upgrading to an A64 PCIe platform in ~ 4-5 mths. If I get wind of Nforce4 boards coming I might hold off my upgrade.
My 9800PRO cost me $250, my fall upgrade will probably cost ~ $250-$350. But what if I could just buy another 9800PRO for $175 now? I paid a $20 premium for my motherboard last year for the option to do so but don't you think it was worth it? This is the scenario I'm trying to lay out.
I'm not saying that everybody should jump on SLI, just that for those who are upgrading it would be a viable option if Nvidia does support dual PEG in their next chipset.
But for those that want SLI and are planning an upgrade it's no biggie. I'm on a 2600+ Nforce2 9800PRO setup. I will be upgrading to an A64 PCIe platform in ~ 4-5 mths. If I get wind of Nforce4 boards coming I might hold off my upgrade.
My 9800PRO cost me $250, my fall upgrade will probably cost ~ $250-$350. But what if I could just buy another 9800PRO for $175 now? I paid a $20 premium for my motherboard last year for the option to do so but don't you think it was worth it? This is the scenario I'm trying to lay out.
I'm not saying that everybody should jump on SLI, just that for those who are upgrading it would be a viable option if Nvidia does support dual PEG in their next chipset.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
Chalnoth said:
Some will, sure. And enthusiasts are more likely to be earlier adopters than others. Don't forget trini is talking about dual 6800 non ultra being the big success. I wouldn't consider a single 6800 non-u an "enthusiast" card. (Most enthusiasts will be going for at least x800 Pros and 6800 GTs)
Will they also be upgrading to BTX? Or will they wait for that too? There's a big difference between the introduction of a platform, and the widespread acceptance / availability.
Agreed. "May be...next year." (12 months from now.) At which time I'm thinking most "enthusiasts" won't be particularly interested in a dual 6800 non-ultra, with the "next generation" GPUs poised to hit the market.
I'll purchase a PCI-E system when it's demonstrated that for my needs, it provides a benefit...OR when I'm ready to upgrade my CPU based on relative performance to my current rig...so PCI-E will come by default.
The viability for me to edit video in HDTV resolutions may push me to buy a PCI-E mobo sooner than my normal upgrade cycle.
Curiously...what is prompting you to purchase a PCI-E system "before long", if it's not just coinciding with your normal system upgrade cycle?
Well, it will coincide with a system upgrade (I'm on an Athlon XP 2000+, so it's getting close to time), but I also want it for programming reasons. One program I want to write for the GeForce 6800 would probably benefit from the added bandwidth of PCI Express, so I'll probably be buying pretty much an entire new system late this year or early next year (video, CPU, mobo, RAM).Joe DeFuria said:
Since I'm likely to get a pretty nice motherboard anyway, it may be viable for me to just go ahead and get one with two 16x slots. However, I probably shouldn't, given that I care more about getting a more advanced GPU than two with more fillrate.
well, some ppl think me as a PC technology geek and I have:
- 4 years old case
- 3 years old motherboard
- 2 years old CPU
- 1.5 years old Graphics card and PSU.
(as an example, when enthuastic finds himself from the situation where bread in the table is more important than getting 6-month-hw-upgrade-cycle done.)
and now I about to upgrade, but not to 64-bit yet. I am expecting pretty good performance shift even on games though I don't change GFX card.
But then again, I am general PC geek. not a only 3D graphics enthuastic. (and in fact, I am more like casual gamer nowadays.)
EDIT: umh... over 1000 posts, when that happen? gosh, my no-life experience has reached a new level. yeppee...
- 4 years old case
- 3 years old motherboard
- 2 years old CPU
- 1.5 years old Graphics card and PSU.
(as an example, when enthuastic finds himself from the situation where bread in the table is more important than getting 6-month-hw-upgrade-cycle done.)
and now I about to upgrade, but not to 64-bit yet. I am expecting pretty good performance shift even on games though I don't change GFX card.
But then again, I am general PC geek. not a only 3D graphics enthuastic. (and in fact, I am more like casual gamer nowadays.)
EDIT: umh... over 1000 posts, when that happen? gosh, my no-life experience has reached a new level. yeppee...
The re-introduction of SLI could very well have a lot more to do about the (soon-to-be) future than we might imagine right now.
The NV40 is already quite the beast with 222 million transitors on a 130nm process and any massive advance in performance is going to be difficult as we approach 90nm (let alone going beyond that) if the CPU market is anything to judge by.
Enter the SLI, which will get the hungry more performance when the process-road blocks will be all over place during the next generation (or at least the ones after that).
You have to start somewhere, so now nVidia have made use for two x16 PCI-E slots on motherboards so more consumers will be ready for SLI when they need to be ready.
On the other hand: The SLI NV45 might just be the developer platform that Carmack and Sweeney required in order to work on their next engines.
The NV40 is already quite the beast with 222 million transitors on a 130nm process and any massive advance in performance is going to be difficult as we approach 90nm (let alone going beyond that) if the CPU market is anything to judge by.
Enter the SLI, which will get the hungry more performance when the process-road blocks will be all over place during the next generation (or at least the ones after that).
You have to start somewhere, so now nVidia have made use for two x16 PCI-E slots on motherboards so more consumers will be ready for SLI when they need to be ready.
On the other hand: The SLI NV45 might just be the developer platform that Carmack and Sweeney required in order to work on their next engines.
Joe DeFuria
Legend
trinibwoy said:Well the majority of people buying PCIe graphics cards in the next 6 months surely will be
Sure...
Seriously though...why again do I care if I have a 6800 PCI-E vs. a 6800 AGP card? Or a X800 XT PCI-E over a X800 XT AGP?
Almost nobody does. In other words, if you're putting together a new sysyem in the next 6 months or so, including a new graphics card, of course you're going to go PCI-E, as it has better upgradability down the road. I don't see anyone buying a PCI-E card because it's PCI-E. (Except a very very small segment of users like Chalnoth who may be interested in using the GPU for non graphics tasks or HDTV editing folks.)
ninelven said:
funny, the pro users are saying "this is for the gaming market, it's of no use to us." How is it going to benefit the pro market? Other than Gelato, it's not of any real benefit unless you can figure a way to increase vertex processing performance. Of course, if you're talking the visualization market... yeah, but ATi already has that dominated... and they'll be wanting to build 4-32 chip boards, but take two PC boards and slap em in a system.
Joe DeFuria said:
You don't, because you have a system that you will be happy with for the forseeable future. The point isn't that people should upgrade now just because of PCIe. The point is that people who are planning to upgrade will go PCIe for the same reason that you outlined above and hence make SLI an option for them to consider.
I know some "enthusiasts" have been holding out on upgrades because of the coming Socket 939/775, PCIe, DDR2, Native SATA technologies. I think this fall will see a lot more people upgrading than the last.
Uttar said:
well, afaik isn't same as fact. it can be close but things change fast. and yeah, I know your reputation as well as you know mine. And I respect it, Still, be careful. AFAIK stuff gets sometimes pretty hot and you could easily burn more than just fingers on it.
AFAIK, AXE chip had / has something close VideoShader and to "SuperTiling" about a year before ATI bring these on R300.
can I prove it? no way. maybe when the axe gets as old as Pyramid3D is now....
I figure this WILL have an appeal to the general market in the same way it did before with Voodoo 2's... It guides you to buying a particular card early on for a good upgrade, and then get another of the same card later when they're cheap as an easy upgrade later on, rather than shelling out a ton for the "next, greatest" thing of that generation or next.
It WILL, however, take a long time to roll out. PCI-Express itself isn't precisely common yet, and though it's coming it will require a dual PCI-Express board (which in itself will cut down on available other expansion slots and restrict cooling options somewhat, which the power gamers like--but won't affect mainstream much) to be purchased first (or as an additional cost later, which drives some people off), and it will ALSO require PCI-Express, SLI-capable boards that are in the mainstream already, rather than the $400-500 cards which area already in a small market.
In one-to-two years' time it might start filtering down to more maintream options, but for now I think we'll mainly see it as a marketing point and way to interest the real enthusiasts.
It WILL, however, take a long time to roll out. PCI-Express itself isn't precisely common yet, and though it's coming it will require a dual PCI-Express board (which in itself will cut down on available other expansion slots and restrict cooling options somewhat, which the power gamers like--but won't affect mainstream much) to be purchased first (or as an additional cost later, which drives some people off), and it will ALSO require PCI-Express, SLI-capable boards that are in the mainstream already, rather than the $400-500 cards which area already in a small market.
In one-to-two years' time it might start filtering down to more maintream options, but for now I think we'll mainly see it as a marketing point and way to interest the real enthusiasts.
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