nVidia's GPP program is just a legally enforced GITG from hell?

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by digitalwanderer, Mar 8, 2018.

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  1. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
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    I don't believe it was stated that discounts or allocations were part of the program, just that it was hinted at under the table. I don't visit that site ever but from your quote they're not denying anything that Kyle is stating is part of the program? I don't know what an MDF is though.
     
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  2. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    Wait, nVidia denies it so it's all over? Just like that?
     
    #42 digitalwanderer, Mar 10, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2018
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  3. bgroovy

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    I have refused to buy Nvidia GPUs for a long time because of their many unethical, anticonsumer and anticompetitive activities. This would not shock me at all.
     
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  4. CSI PC

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    Because some just like with the Sakura news blow this out of proportion without having all the facts or critically not looking at it in the broader context/perspective, and again some are doing it in this very thread.

    Look back and I SAID "ah but some will say this is larger" and explained why it does not matter, please consider your accusation in last post is wrong.
    Again you do not get the Sapphire engagement; they GET MORE SUPPORT THAN OTHER AIB PARTNERS, how the F""" do you think they are the only board partner to make it to embedded partner and not just that but also Elite and involved in deals that involve 3rd parties with embedded solutions, along with business practice that other AIBs do not have as well (explained those earlier).

    NOWHERE does it say Nvidia is denying support-engagement just that there could be 2 tiers (this is what we have with Sapphire as I showed a few times now), look back and anyway lets see how this pans out.
    As I said, this is expanding upon the Sapphire engagement AMD has but on a much larger scale, the NEGATIVE is the impact it has AIB partners as the only known fact for now until we have further information on the freaking Program beyond some basics given by Kyle.

    I am dropping this like I had to with regards to Sakura, but yeah lets see if this potential over-reaction in this thread from several was worth it.
     
    #44 CSI PC, Mar 10, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  5. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    The devil will be in the details. If NV denies it prioritizes allocation or support by aligning a gaming brand with NV, are there still other advantages given to those who align their gaming brand with NV?

    Err, citations needed?

    AMD released a driver just the other day with new gaming optimizations/bug fixes. I don't see how your claim meshes cleanly with reality... :p
     
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  6. CSI PC

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    Last post as needed.
    So now you are saying the Program will stop the same GPU coolers and PCB sharing (not much between AMD and Nvidia on that front anyway if at all).
    The only information we have on this Program is about broader marketing-branding-product positioning, like I said further information is required but I really cannot see it blocking hardware components.
    The cooling aspect is tied to other model details such as with Asus it is STRIX/DUAL/POSIEDEN/etc, same goes for other companies like MSI with their Twin-Frzr (which is part of the branding that helps to sell MSI).

    If Nvidia wanted major impact as you suggest against AMD they would also had tried to block AMD CPUs and that would hurt; eventually that would had been seen as illegal and overturned by courts but would have the effect it needed now.
    In Kyles ROG example it would only affect GPUs.
    The reason why this Program exists was given by Kyle in his article, yes it may have some impact on AMD but the real negative is the overhead and burden it creates on AIB partners/OEMs who feel like they must sign up or miss out; maybe they would be happy if Nvidia just selected several of the partners and gave them a premier tier but I doubt it.
     
    #46 CSI PC, Mar 10, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  7. ToTTenTranz

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    Yeah when the police questions a crime suspect and he claims innocence we should totally assume he's telling the truth.

    Just like Intel claimed their "special rebates" weren't happening 12 years ago.
     
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  8. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    Right now there seems to be a "he said she said" situation brewing - we'll probably have to wait a bit to see where all the bricks fall.

    Kyle said he saw documents, supporting his claims. I've never been a Kyle fan, he's a dickish texan with a big mouth, but I don't think there's ever been a case of him straight up lying. I can't remember that ever happening. So if NV denies Kyle's claims, what exactly were those documents?

    We shall see what comes out of this in the end, I'm sure it's not over yet. Maybe photos were taken of said documents, who knows. :)
     
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  9. Anarchist4000

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    Not just that they must sign up, but they have to eat the costs of marketing an entirely separate brand. Then the question of if it prohibits multiple "gaming" brands. It won't allow the partners to put any products into the line that may contain AMD's graphics tech, despite not being in direct competition. The gaming brands have all sorts of peripherals, so there could exist video editing for streamers, etc.

    APUs with the possibility of integrated plus discrete graphics will prove interesting. GPU pass-through with VMs could be an extremely viable platform in the future and this would seemingly prohibit that. Nvidia won't be able to create a comparable solution on par with KabyG/RyzenG from a power standpoint because of the lack of integration. The KabyG design with integrated (power efficient) plus discrete (performance) would be a useful model going forward. It also works with external GPUs, but again the GPP would seemingly prohibit those designs under the same brand.
     
  10. Kaotik

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    Really? How many times have companies accused of illegal practices admitted anything before being penalized in court? I'm pretty sure I distinctively remember Intel denying any illegal activities back in the day too, and we all know how that turned out.
     
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  11. Malo

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    As far as I can tell, Nvidia haven't denied anything Kyle stated is actually part of the GPP, just the other stuff he was alluding to being under the table.
     
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  12. BRiT

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    Come on folks. There is no need to get personal just because a company's alleged actions are under scrutiny. You're worse than the console warriors! You should be better than this. Keep it civil.
     
  13. pharma

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    At this point all alleged actions are from the rumor mill! Wait until some facts surface that substantiate the rumors one way or the other...
     
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  14. Anarchist4000

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    That's not what AMD's CEO said, but perhaps you know more?

    What dream? JPR recently released the numbers. Discrete GPU sales continue their decline, despite the mining boom and the Intel/AMD offerings are really going to hammer that point home in the high volume segments. No reason to abandon GCN when it's becoming so widely adopted and Nvidia is still working in a counter for async. Holding back DX12/Vulkan in the process. AMD doesn't need anything new if they start scaling chips, which Vega should be able to do. You might as well be claiming Nvidia controls 100% of the dGPU market that uses Nvidia chips. Really narrow down that focus to spin the numbers!

    It's what the official numbers and company officials said with the last earnings report. As it's legally binding, I'm inclined to believe it. Mining aside, the chips are being adopted and sold as fast as AMD can produce them. The amended wafer agreement should help with Fab space, but likely not memory. Might be interesting if we see relative memory capacity cut in half with upcoming models.

    Why limit comparisons to dGPU and not the broader graphics market? If dGPU is completely phased out, are numbers really relevant? Those options are dethroning the 1030 and haven't scaled to 1060 range yet. Intel took the entire bottom out of the dGPU market and performance wasn't the deciding factor. Performance doesn't matter if OEMs start replacing discrete with cheaper, smaller integrated solutions with comparable performance.

    This program is designed to cut losses and Nvidia is likely looking well ahead of what's public. I outlined this path years ago and none of this is really a surprise. Nvidia wouldn't risk pissing off partners if they could avoid it, although they do seem to do it regularly.
     
  15. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    I resent that, I happen to like/respect Charlie Demerjian and think he does some fantastic journalism. Not arguing, just disagreeing on a point.


    Also I have discovered I'm in terrible forum shape! Following the thread at [H] about this has been a lot harder than it used to be for me. :/

    Someone raised an excellent point though, it isn't the first time nVidia has tried this. Anyone remember the OriginPC/nVidia "Tier 0" scandal from about 5-6 years ago?

    https://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/07/nvidias-program-get-oems-like-origin-pc-dump-amd-called-tier-0/
     
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  16. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    But, AMD has no control over pricing. In fact, in some/many countries it would be illegal for them to even try.

    I don't see how you can reasonably fault them for this.
     
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  17. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    I'd also argue about the "drivers don't sell hardware" as nVidia pushed their drivers as "the golden standard" for just too many bloody years not for it to have had SOME affect.

    Prices are probably more important too, but you don't think good drivers and driver support are a critical part too? I'd disagree with you on that one.
     
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  18. BRiT

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    As long as the drivers aren't catching the video cards on fire, do they really matter that much anymore? :runaway:
     
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  19. CarstenS

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    They cannot control pricing for their partners, but they provide or withhold incentives for them to work hard in order to match a desired price point at least for a certain period of time.

    I guess there are always deals going on beneath the surface regardless whether they are called Tier 0, GitG, GPP or don't have a name at all. While generally not being desireable for the consumer, some do have their benefits like low launch prices, quality control wrt to fan noise and generally sufficient board design to provide enough and stable power to the GPU.

    Sapphire basically IS a gaming brand for AMD [edit: -GPU based cards already (as much as Zotac is for Nvidia, just look up their parent company). From the other mixed AIBs, at least Asus already has a strong gaming brand (ROG) and could continue to sell AMD cards under their own name. Gigabyte is working towards this as well with Aorus, only MSI is lacking in this regard with only different branches like Gaming, Lightning etc.
     
    #59 CarstenS, Mar 11, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  20. CSI PC

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    Charlie though never followed that up with what the CEO then came out and said publicly.
    AMD never gave them the support (in terms of access to the higher tier products at sampling status) nor any engagement at the level they wanted and expected even when they discussed this with AMD where Nvidia offered this.
    And AMD never denied the CEO claims from what I can tell.
     
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