NVIDIA Maxwell Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Arun, Feb 9, 2011.

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  1. fbomber

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    No. Completely different situations. False advertising is illegal. It´s even a crime in many countries. You can not lie to a consumer to make he/she buy your product, as it would be fraud.

    Even if it was just a mistake by Nvidia, those that were mislead by the company´s statements which misrepresented the product and feel cheated should be compensated. Consumers have the right to know what they are buying.
     
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  2. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    Perfectly understandable that this would be "discovered" by end users rather than theoretical noodling around. For one, the tools for the end user have got better (or at least, more accessible) to be able to discover this type of thing. Second, the fundamental interconnects within a GPU are not the parts that are ever discussed, because largely they aren't necessary to know about; additionally ASIC "harvesting" characteristics often change between relatively minor architectural changes, or even from chip configurations within the same family.
     
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  3. Rys

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    They are making the consumer whole again if that's what they want.

    As to having a right to know what you're buying, nobody is obliged to disclose the architectural details of their processor up front. You're within your rights to buy it and return it if it doesn't do what you were expecting for the money you paid, but having the details NV are in trouble over, as part of that expectation, is luxury.

    The details are disclosed to reviewers because the enthusiast segment "sells" boards to other segments via recommendation. As soon as that stops being profitable for the vendor, disclosure will go away. This furore puts that in danger, in my opinion anyway.
     
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  4. firstminion

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    That's preposterous.
     
  5. firstminion

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    I would say that the asymmetry puts the (theoretical) Memory Bandwidth value in jeopardy and that is a memory specification. http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-970/specifications

    We don't need to pander nvidia, if they don't want to disclose architectural details, don't disclose it. But if they do, bite the bullet.
     
  6. 3dilettante

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    The specifications can be argued as being derived from the physical capability of the DRAM chips and physical interface of the GPU, which are straightforward and physically true.
    It's also unclear if the bandwidth number cannot be reached in certain situations. The articles on the subject focus on read bandwidth, but what if one partition has reads and the other has writes?
     
  7. Ryan Smith

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    Then you can achieve the 224GB/sec. Though pulling that off in practice is very hard, which is why NV doesn't even activate the last segment until you need the extra VRAM.

    (The write bus is shared, just like the read bus. So to get 224GB/sec you need to be able to co-issue reads and writes every last cycle. Otherwise if there's a block, you quickly lose bandwidth)
     
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  8. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    I remember when Microsoft promoted the Xbox 360 as a 1TFLOP console. I wonder what would have happened if people had been equally offended by that.
     
  9. dbz

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    Just out of interest, how often do these kind of things go to court? I seem to remember a similar situation (re: advertised features) regarding the 2900 XT's UVD status. Checked through a couple of old threads here ( and here), but the issue seemed to have just hand-waved away or magically disappeared
     
  10. snc

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    Reading from last 512mb vram in gtx970 is 22GB/s, and pci express 3 is 16GB/s so no big difference, but to read from system ram we have to copy it to vram(16GB/s) and then read from vram, thats the difference ?
     
  11. Rys

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    Right, bandwidth arguably doesn't even matter at that point. There are very few situations where, if the GPU needs something that isn't in its directly addressable memory, latency isn't what actually murders performance. It's nuanced (the two are inextricably linked), but finding things to do for thousands of clocks is very hard and will almost guarantee to starve the chip.
     
  12. kukreknecmi

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    So for a 980, if Nvidia GPU wants to write memory(say uncached write), then it does this in 1KB granulity right? For a 32KB write , does this via (1KB x 8 channel) x 4 times , am i getting it right?
     
  13. LordEC911

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    No. Nvidia never said that. A Director of Customer Care at Nvidia, asked GTX970 owners that want to return the card to contact the retailer and AIB, then if you are denied he will contact them on your behalf. There is no guarantee of anything being done for you.
     
    #2893 LordEC911, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
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  14. firstminion

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    "Physically true", but in jeopardy nonetheless. Ryan remembered that Nvidia doesn't even activate the last segment until the last moment. It feels a little crooked.
     
  15. Malo

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    I don't know why I'd give up my 970. The performance and cooling is fantastic for the price.
     
  16. Esrever

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    It all depends on your perception on the basis of morality and such. Also hinges on if you view nvidia basically hiding a serious flaw directly effect you in anyways. To some people, it show a lack of respect for their own customers when a company lies like this. I recommended the 970 to a friend and even on his behalf I feel kind of bad even though the issue will likely never come up.
     
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  17. Ryan Smith

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    Remembered? That information came from NVIDIA (Jonah) back on Sunday.
     
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  18. Putas

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    I have doubts about this changing future-proofness of 970. Assuming 980 is balanced, 970 in general use does not have much need for more ROPs, bandwidth and capacity.

    The bits are actual connections, there is nothing like "up to 32 bits". You can argue it is 224 and proportionally lower bandwidth because the last MC cannot be used at once. The problem with through-output of last chunk is (if I understand it ) the complete lack of L2 cache - it has nothing to do with bits.

    Jeez, are they gonna reuse codenames like that?
     
  19. Blazkowicz

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    I don't remember that.
    What about the video engines on anything pre geforce 8600GT/8500GT/8400GS : there was a video engine advertised but it was pretty useless, such as MPEG2 assistance in specific video players and partial assistance in H264 and VC-1 which maybe hardly anyone ever used. It took years for video decoders to get support in video players, flash plugin etc. (DXVA and VDPAU) by which time the early video engines were 100% useless and deprecated.
     
  20. HMBR

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    32bits is the maximum for the last 512MB, because of the way they have disabled the ROP/L2 (which normally would make them also disable that MC) to which it should be connected and it operates separately from the other MCs, so the maximum bandwidth is just for one MC (32bits) while reading/writing to that, while the other 3.5GB can use the full 224 bits from the 7 MCs combined (and the 980 can use the full 8 MCs = 256bits)

    they also advertised the card as having 64 ROPs and 2MB of l2, maybe they didn't write it on the box or nvidia.com, but they sent these specs for sites like Anandtech, TomsHardware and so on, which they use to advertise their products, and they fully expected these sites to publish these false specs... so even if you think the 224GB/s is debatable, the ROPs/L2 are clear;

    as for them helping with refunds, it looks to me like they are helping forum members/social media active persons to get their refunds, seems fine, but maybe something more official would be better for the others.
     
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