NVIDIA Maxwell Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Arun, Feb 9, 2011.

Tags:
  1. silent_guy

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,754
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    I didn't even mention power consumption: just pointing out that all reviews are extremely positive... for a variety of reasons.
     
  2. 3dilettante

    Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,365
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    Location:
    Well within 3d
    THG claims its compute load had a sustained average draw above TDP, but I'm uncertain this isn't a case of playing with a new toy in the wrong way.

    You can't do much to TDP, because it's just a technical specification that serves as a guide to the cooling solution designer and it is a measure of power output that is averaged of a short period of time (not usec short).
    In terms of temperature averaged over the chip, changes usually aren't that rapid, but local hot spots like highly utilized ALUs can spike in temperature in the time frame of tens of microseconds.

    Designs have thermal sensors situated at various parts of the chip, and they do have failsafes. However, they also have known latency periods for how quickly they can react, depending on the method used, so what usually happens is that a safety margin of X watts of TDP and of Y degrees C is set below what the chip can draw and what it can heat up to.
    This is one reason why everyone freaked out when AMD's 290 purposefully sat at 95C, but it's something of a feather in their cap that their thermal/voltage/clock solution can react that quickly at those power levels--and with that cooler.
    GPUs without that level of responsiveness leave that power and thermal budget on the table.


    He could try comparing with more standard power measurement methods, like those that try to isolate the board, or a Kill-A-Watt meter. The claimed sustained violation of the TDP is bigger than typical margins of error from those schemes, and would show up as a higher value at the wall.
    Choosing to take a noisy input and then flipping some settings to average things leaves open the possibility of a sampling or interpretation error.

    The jittery graphs of exactly one architecture don't have any comparative value, and the analysis such as it is credits the spiking to things like turbo/voltage steps they didn't bother recording, and then extends a comparison to AMD's GPU that they didn't even measure.
    All we get from that is people breathlessly pointing at spikes they have no context to understand.

    It might be interesting if any spikes managed to breach the maximum safe limits for the card/power supply, but I don't think those are iron-clad enough to allow people to freak out over 1 usec twitches every once in a while, and I see no sign that the reviewer read through the electrical and thermal specifications of the PCIe spec and Nvidia's card/thermal solution guide.

    Playing devil's advocate: Bayer's Heroin also launched to rave reviews... ;)
     
  3. fbomber

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    17
    Yes, mostly because power consumption is kind of low for the performance. It's like reviewers don't understand the market gtx 980 is inserted. High end users already have their 1000-1500w power supplies and, in general, want the best performance. They don't care about power consumption if it means higher performance.

    If Amd releases a 300w part with only 20% higher performance than gtx980, that's were the high end will go.

    Nvidia's new product is cool for the tech experts. For consumers, it's disappoiting to see such low increase in performance after all the time from gtx780 release.

    As I said, wait for the real deal, the new titan or a new high end from amd.
     
  4. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    10,602
    Likes Received:
    643
    Location:
    New York
    The market for the GTX 980 is much bigger than just those people who already own a 780. I'm sure owners of 580's and 680's are far from disappointed.
     
  5. Ryan Smith

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    623
    Likes Received:
    1,095
    Location:
    PCIe x16_1
    For what it's worth, none of my compute benchmarks break TDP containment according to NVIDIA's drivers. You can definitely light up enough CUDA cores and push the card into throttling itself, but it's not violating TDP as far as I can tell. Power at the wall is consistent with FurMark.
     
  6. Alexko

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,515
    Likes Received:
    934
    Perhaps I'm an alien, but I tend to avoid graphics cards above 200W. I like to be able to play games in the summer without drowning in my own sweat.
     
  7. fellix

    fellix Hey, You!
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,506
    Likes Received:
    424
    Location:
    Varna, Bulgaria
    AFAIK, Kepler have a GPR bandwidth deficiency so probably can't get all the ALU lanes loaded at the same time (mostly). Dunno about DP mode.
     
  8. silent_guy

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,754
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    If reactions on forums are anything to go by, it's going to do very well with the mid-upper range upgrade crowd. There's a reason this was positioned by Nvidia against a GTX 680.
     
  9. CarstenS

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Messages:
    4,943
    Likes Received:
    2,286
    Location:
    Germany
    But this is Maxwell, which had cut back it's ALUs per SM for a reason - the Kepler flaw you mentioned.
     
  10. fbomber

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    17
    I don't see anything compelling for those with gtx 680. The performance is almost the same as the 780 ti, and you can buy it, for the last few months, for the same price as the gtx 980.

    Nvidia is positioning the new card against the gtx 680 just for marketing purposes, as it would be ridiculous the comparisons against the card it's effectively replacing.

    The new card just bring benefits for nvidia, because of its lower cost to produce/same price of sale=more profits.
     
  11. mczak

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,019
    Likes Received:
    115
    I thought the time of driver hacks to restrict power draw of specific apps were over ever since the chips can actually measure this and react to it accordingly on their own.
    I have no idea really though what's going on with these measurement. In any case, even if they are true, near certainly there would still be quite a good perf/w increase over Kepler chips in this workload.
     
  12. fbomber

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    17
    I own 2 titan blacks and don't care about power consumption. I know many people with high end gear, and no one of them cares about it. You are not an alien, but your priorities are different than those that buy high end video cards.

    Noise really can be an issue, especially for those who don't watercool, but low power consumption is not a necessity. We can always buy a higher wattage power supply, or even buy a second one.
     
  13. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    10,602
    Likes Received:
    643
    Location:
    New York
    Yep it's a better, faster, cheaper 780 Ti so what's not to like for a 680 owner?

    I want to see what Asus does with its 980. I had a great experience with my directCU 680 and it seems Evga's ACX cooler isn't as good from a noise/temp standpoint. I suspect air cooled 980's will put the 780 Ti to shame.
     
  14. Alexko

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,515
    Likes Received:
    934
    Yet I've owned a GF 4 Ti 4600, an FX 5900XT, a Radeon X1950 Pro, an HD 4850 and a 6950. Those may not all be super high end, but still pretty high.

    Being demanding in graphics performance doesn't imply that one is OK with graphics cards drawing 600W.
     
  15. fellix

    fellix Hey, You!
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,506
    Likes Received:
    424
    Location:
    Varna, Bulgaria
    Mildly amusing :lol:

     
  16. silent_guy

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,754
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    The GTX980 is not very compelling for its price. I think they priced it so high as an anchor to justify higher prices for higher performance Maxwell GPUs. But what about the GTX970?


    They are. And I think it's positioned incredibly well. Most people don't buy new GPUs each year, so those who bought a GTX680 were never in the market for a GTX780(Ti) in the first place.

    I think this is case where it's benefitting both...

    Wouldn't you agree that $2000 in GPU performance and $330 in GPU performance are targeting very different markets? I have no problem with people buying the former, but I could only ever justify the latter to myself (and my wife!) I think you are simply not in the target group of the GTX970 and GTX980. I'm confident that in the next 6 months AMD or Nvidia will have something for you that will. And then others will nope out of it. :wink:

    Hey, that's a pretty cool demo!
     
  17. pharma

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    3,575
    Likes Received:
    2,294
    Not sure if this has been posted yet:

    The video below is what happened to Fable Legends when Lionhead applied some DX12 tweaks and ran it on some Maxwell hardware.
    http://video.ch9.ms/ch9/a74e/127de55e-4e42-4b76-ae4e-1edb1ff7a74e/DirectXTechdemo_mid.mp4

    http://www.extremetech.com/computin...is-the-first-gpu-with-full-directx-12-support
     
  18. gamervivek

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    229
    Location:
    india
    I'm sure they are disappointed by the fact that they could have had the same performance a year and half earlier.
     
  19. silent_guy

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,754
    Likes Received:
    1,380
    :?: What do you mean?
     
  20. silent_guy

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,754
    Likes Received:
    1,380
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...