Now this is interesting...

[Humus]

who are members of a rather mislead cult.

Oh please, drop the BS and read up about their beliefs and practices instead. I grew up as a JW. Been to every meeting three times a week for the first 18 years of my life. I didn't turn out as a misled brain washed zombie or whatever people want to think about JWs. I don't have that faith anymore and I'm not practicing, but I got many relatives that do, and they certainly aren't any nutcases. It's normal people with normal lives. Unconventional interpretation of the bible maybe, but "misled" is highly subjective and I'd be quicker to sign under the JW interpretation than some mainstream catholic or protestant view, and I don't know why you should perceive it as a cult.

 

[MfA]

Oh well, no saving this thread anyway ...

Jehovas might not quite reach as high on the loonieness scale as scientologists or moonies, but Id still place them above mormons ... even there I think most intelligent people just play along so they wont be forced out of their community, most of the rest being naive/fruits and people who are in it for the power it grants them.

Allowing organ transplants but not blood transfusion? Silly buggers ... and they might not oppose vaccianations and transplants anymore, but they surely did in the past. Nevermind the never ending fun of predicting the apocalypse. How do they deal with the fact that most of the first generation of Jehova's witnesses is dead and buried already anyway? They were supposed to see the second coming werent they?

If I were to pick a religion Id pick one with better odds of getting into heaven.

 

[RussSchultz]

No, mormons are much more loony than JW.

Go read up on them at www.religioustolerance.org. JW simply refute the trinity and are believers in pacifism. Mormons have their own text and claim Jesus had a showing in the new world. Plus they have a strange habit of post humously baptising people.

 

[MfA]

AFAICS the loonieness of the Mormon's religion is just a little better documented, Jesus traveling to America is about on the same level as God living on a planet in the Pleiades.

Jehova's witnesses just seem more serious about their religion as Mormons to me ... I mean in essence Catholicism was a dangerous cult, but nowadays most of the catholics I know dont take a word the pope says seriously (even when he didnt just sit there drooling most of the time). It is not so much the loonieness of the religion in and of itself which I find important, but the extent in which the believers go along with it (instead of playing along with it).

 

[RussSchultz]

I don't think the JW believe in God on a planet in the Pleiades?

 

[John Reynolds]

No, mormons are much more loony than JW.

Go read up on them at www.religioustolerance.org. JW simply refute the trinity and are believers in pacifism. Mormons have their own text and claim Jesus had a showing in the new world. Plus they have a strange habit of post humously baptising people.

And for what it's worth there are other protestant denominations that also refute the trinity, though they are certainly in the minority.

 

[Humus]

Allowing organ transplants but not blood transfusion? Silly buggers ...

Of course, acts 15:28,29:
15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay no greater burden on you than these necessary things:

15:29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality, from which if you keep yourselves, it will be well with you. Farewell."

There's no bible verse (that I know of anyway) that mention anything close to organ transplants.

How do they deal with the fact that most of the first generation of Jehova's witnesses is dead and buried already anyway? They were supposed to see the second coming werent they?

If I were to pick a religion Id pick one with better odds of getting into heaven.

Typical comment from someone not too familiar with JWs faith.

JWs believe the second coming has already happened in the year of 1914. They believe the second coming would be invisible, but the signs of the times would show it, war, starvation, illness and all that stuff.

Yes, JWs do believe only 144,000 go to heaven, and most of them are already there. But the point is that they believe most people will be resurrected for eternal life on earth after armageddon. Makes sense really, why would God have create humans on earth if he intended them to live in heaven? Is heaven just a backup solution that God had to pull since Adam and Eve sinned?

 

[Humus]

I don't think the JW believe in God on a planet in the Pleiades?

Certainly not. I never cease to be amazed at what ideas people claim JWs believe in.

 

[MfA]

The governing body has floated and retracted a lot of crazy stuff, and a good Jehova's witness should follow the governing body ... without the belief in the divine connection of the governing body how can you call yourself a Jehova's witness? The concept of the 144K Jehova's witnesses chosen to go to heaven would be rather difficult to believe in otherwise, and that idea is rather central to the Jehova's witnesses (I should mention that that number is bound to rise, the hierarchy of the church demands lots of living members of that group ... cant very well have the church leadership not being allowed into heaven, so as long as Armageddon is delayed the higher that number shall rise).

 

[kyleb]

"millions now living will never die!"

also, what ever happened to Beth-Sarim?


as for the quotes from Acts; the bible talks a lot about not eating blood which was common practice in many other religions of the day. applying those comments to transfusions is quite a strech.

 

[Tim Murray]

I drink my own blood when I cut myself (well, when I cut myself with something that's relatively sterile). In the immortal words of Gary Busey, it's the paragon of recycling.

(Seriously, the majority of Mormons and JWs are perfectly reasonable. It's the crazy fundamentalist ones that cause problems.)

 

[MfA]

Sorry Humus, you are right ... I meant they should have seen Armageddon.

The Baron, yes but in both cases their church hierarchy claims to have a hot line to god in one way or another ... and uses that to lord over their members (just like the Catholic church, but as I said ... catholics dont take the pope that seriously, and also edicts are relatively rare). If they really believe in their particular faiths then they believe what their leadership tells them.

 

[Humus]

The concept of the 144K Jehova's witnesses chosen to go to heaven would be rather difficult to believe in otherwise, and that idea is rather central to the Jehova's witnesses (I should mention that that number is bound to rise, the hierarchy of the church demands lots of living members of that group ... cant very well have the church leadership not being allowed into heaven, so as long as Armageddon is delayed the higher that number shall rise).

That number is not going to rise. And why shouldn't church leadership be possible to live on earth instead? As if eternal life on earth is a lesser destination. Who's going where is not depending on how high you're in the "hierarchy". Many of those destined for heaven are among average members in the congregations.

 

[Humus]

also, what ever happened to Beth-Sarim?

Happened to what? Never heard of whatever that is.

Anyway,

 

[Legion]

who are members of a rather mislead cult.

Oh please, drop the BS and read up about their beliefs and practices instead. I grew up as a JW. Been to every meeting three times a week for the first 18 years of my life. I didn't turn out as a misled brain washed zombie or whatever people want to think about JWs. I don't have that faith anymore and I'm not practicing, but I got many relatives that do, and they certainly aren't any nutcases. It's normal people with normal lives. Unconventional interpretation of the bible maybe, but "misled" is highly subjective and I'd be quicker to sign under the JW interpretation than some mainstream catholic or protestant view, and I don't know why you should perceive it as a cult.

actually you can cut the bullshit. I have read quite a bit concerning their dogma and doctrine and it is indeed nothing more than psychobabel and nonsense. Their religion started out as a sham/fraud and exists as such today. It was the scientology of its era.

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/jw.htm

http://www.carm.org/jw/cult.htm

http://www.carm.org/jw/history.htm

http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/jw/murdered4.html

 

[MfA]

As the only one to comment on the actual content of the article in the first post I dont feel too much guilt at diverging from it.

Humus, the church leadership derives its authority from being the governing body of the class of 144K. If the church leadership was not part of the group of people who are to hold dominion over all according to their interpretation of the bible then they can no longer present their opinions as truths. It would be like the Mormon's leaders no longer being prophets, or the Pope no longer being infallible in his edicts. Just wouldnt work in this day and age where everyone's a critic.

 

[kyleb]

also, what ever happened to Beth-Sarim?

Happened to what? Never heard of whatever that is.

it isn't something the Jehovah's Witnesseses care to talk about these days, but it was an all-important topic back in the great depresion. Beth-Sarim, Hebrew for "House of the Princes", is a mansion Rutherford built and lived in. it was built in expectation of the prophets that would be resurected to forever carry out God's work on earth. the house was sold shortly after Rutherford died.

 

[Humus]

actually you can cut the bullshit. I have read quite a bit concerning their dogma and doctrine and it is indeed nothing more than psychobabel and nonsense. Their religion started out as a sham/fraud and exists as such today. It was the scientology of its era.

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/jw.htm

http://www.carm.org/jw/cult.htm

http://www.carm.org/jw/history.htm

http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/jw/murdered4.html

Yes, I'm sure your nice little links are better source of information than somebody that have actually lived and experienced the organisation from within for 18 years. I can also go around and make subjective statements about people being misled. "Catolics are misled", there you go. They are misled because they believe for instance that Mary was eternally virgin, completely against what the bible says. Everyone is entitled to their interpretation, and just because you don't agree with it doesn't make them misled. And please motivate (if you can) why the word "cult" applies (it doesn't).

 

[Humus]

If the church leadership was not part of the group of people who are to hold dominion over all according to their interpretation of the bible then they can no longer present their opinions as truths.

They don't claim their opinions to be the truth. They claim the truth is the bible. Their publications are just aids to your own bible studies. The doctrines have indeed changed many times, which would be impossible if you claimed your interpretations to be the final truth. JWs don't see any problems with doctrine changes, it's just natural that the understanding of the bible improves with time. It would be more problematic if the church would be unwilling to change a doctrine, even when it's found that the bible says something else.

 

[Legion]

Yes, I'm sure your nice little links are better source of information than somebody that have actually lived and experienced the organisation from within for 18 years.

Just like a scientologist would say about scientology. Its not a cult...take my word for it.

I can also go around and make subjective statements about people being misled. "Catolics are misled", there you go. They are misled because they believe for instance that Mary was eternally virgin, completely against what the bible says. Everyone is entitled to their interpretation, and just because you don't agree with it doesn't make them misled. And please motivate (if you can) why the word "cult" applies (it doesn't).

Cult most certainly applies to the JWs. They are completely mislead wrt to their doctrine. Those links alone provide myriads of completely paradoxical beliefs that rest outside of the bounds of christianity.