Now this is interesting...

[pax]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3537161.stm

Cool new technological development... We need a break, however short, from politicised threads.

 

[Legion]

Nanotechnology poses massive benefits to society. Here's hoping it won't be demonized in the same fashion eco nuts have lambasted biotechnologies.

 

[London Geezer]

There's always gonna be someone against something. Geova witnesses will be against this thing for example. But that's because they're pretty much against EVERYTHING wrt medicine...

Still, this and stem cells (genetic treatment in general) will save our species from illnesses that we once thought were unbeatable. Can't wait for the day this will become as common as buying medicines over the counter today.

 

[pax]

Considering how much toxic meds people eat I wouldnt worry too much about ecologists concerns here. I thought this was more in the way of great news for lenses and puter manufacturing processes.

Now as for biotechs already massive catastrophies and we've barely scratched the surface of what can be done there I think there's enough material for another different thread. Biotech is great but in no way would I like there to be no scrutiny that would allow such calamities as the non sterile canola or the monarch butterfly killing corn to get thru the testing process... Too late for those now tho... god only knows how far the round up proof canola will go before we find a herbicide that can kill it without killing wheat...

Who knows what the next fucked up protein will do if we get lazy there...

 

[nutball]

We need a break, however short, from politicised threads.

Here's hoping it won't be demonized in the same fashion eco nuts have lambasted biotechnologies.

:?

 

[Humus]

There's always gonna be someone against something. Geova witnesses will be against this thing for example. But that's because they're pretty much against EVERYTHING wrt medicine...

Well, first of all, this is about perfect lenses for optical devices, which I see no reason why anyone possibly could be against. I mean, I don't see how you could even get form any ethic debate about it.

Also Jehova's Witnesses aren't in any way against medicine. They are against blood transfusion, and that's it.

 

[Legion]

We need a break, however short, from politicised threads.

Here's hoping it won't be demonized in the same fashion eco nuts have lambasted biotechnologies.

:?

anything important to add concerning what i had to say?

WRT to nanotechnologies i can't but find it difficult to remove politics from the picture.

 

[Legion]

Considering how much toxic meds people eat I wouldnt worry too much about ecologists concerns here. I thought this was more in the way of great news for lenses and puter manufacturing processes.

Which, in and of itself, is a product of nanotechnology.

Now as for biotechs already massive catastrophies and we've barely scratched the surface of what can be done there I think there's enough material for another different thread.

Care to elaborate?

Biotech is great but in no way would I like there to be no scrutiny that would allow such calamities as the non sterile canola or the monarch butterfly killing corn to get thru the testing process...Too late for those now tho... god only knows how far the round up proof canola will go before we find a herbicide that can kill it without killing wheat...

Who knows what the next fucked up protein will do if we get lazy there...

Can you please provide links analysizing the "damages"? Is there something inherently wrong with engineering none steril canola?

Wrt to the Monarchs:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/sites/monarch/

http://www.biotech-info.net/low_risk.html

http://www.fb.com/issues/analysis/Bt_Corn_No_Risk.html

http://pewagbiotech.org/resources/issuebriefs/monarch.pdf

After reading these links i gather the impression Bt Corn 176 was the only threatening variation the modified corn which was quickly replaced by more "advanced" versions as was only planted in a very small area of land to begin with. In this regard i do not blame the scientists, i blame the eco propagandists who have distorted their findings suggesting all variation of the Bt modified corn hurt Monarch larvae (a lie) when in fact only one variation did.

 

[epicstruggle]

Also Jehova's Witnesses aren't in any way against medicine. They are against blood transfusion, and that's it.

I was going to post something similar. Yeah JW, are pretty cool people, very friendly.

later,
epic

 

[Legion]

Also Jehova's Witnesses aren't in any way against medicine. They are against blood transfusion, and that's it.

I was going to post something similar. Yeah JW, are pretty cool people, very friendly.

later,
epic

who are members of a rather mislead cult.

 

[Druga Runda]

yes politics rules...

as for bitotech - blah, we barely scratched the surface and you behave like science is infallible...

biotech has its big risks, and corporate beourocratic way of control is wayyyy over-influenced by $$$ so that I cannot be really convinced that a new "wonder" species has no side effects... maybe the "fresh" tomatos can really last longer, but I am happy with the old ones too and who really benefits apart from Monsanto or some similar biotech firm "patenting" the new products

... risks outweight the gains... give gmo to people who are starving they'd be happy, so you can check how it affects the test subjects

with regards to nanotech - I cannot see how products engineered at atomic level can escape control in the same way that "live" species can...
+ this is with regards to optics - cool what can I say hope they make it...

 

[nutball]

WRT to nanotechnologies i can't but find it difficult to remove politics from the picture.

It's quite possible to talk about nanotechnology without talking about politics, in the same way that it's quite possible to talk about nanotechnology without talking about technology (which is what this thread seems to have happened in this thread *already* despite a jaded comment made by the OP).

 

[Legion]

yes politics rules...

as for bitotech - blah, we barely scratched the surface and you behave like science is infallible...

biotech has its big risks, and corporate beourocratic way of control is wayyyy over-influenced by $$$ so that I cannot be really convinced that a new "wonder" species has no side effects... maybe the "fresh" tomatos can really last longer, but I am happy with the old ones too and who really benefits apart from Monsanto or some similar biotech firm "patenting" the new products

Why do these discussions always degrade into some form of anti-business/profascist rhetoric? Do you really believe a government run and funded plan wouldn't likewise be run by $$$? Aren't $$$ what fuel development in the field to begin with?

 

[Legion]

WRT to nanotechnologies i can't but find it difficult to remove politics from the picture.

It's quite possible to talk about nanotechnology without talking about politics, in the same way that it's quite possible to talk about nanotechnology without talking about technology (which is what this thread seems to have happened in this thread *already* despite a jaded comment made by the OP).

One of the cross link provided by Pax's link offered this quote.

"Nanotechnology has the potential to create huge benefits in many areas but we need to understand whether it raises new ethical, health and safety or social issues," said Science Minister Lord Sainsbury.

I see these issues as fundamental to the discussion of nanotechnology. There is no reason to discuss its benefits without discussing possible negative side effects. I am really not interested in removing the political side of this matter.

 

[nutball]

I see these issues as fundamental to the discussion of nanotechnology.

They are fundamental to the to the discussion of nanotechnology within the context of human society. It's nothing to do with the technology per se. The technology itself is interesting in it's own right regardless of the politics.

There is no reason to discuss its benefits without discussing possible negative side effects. I am really not interested in removing the political side of this matter.

Yes, I know, I can see that. Are you actually interested in the technology at all, or just bashing people who's politics you don't agree with?

 

[Druga Runda]

yes politics rules...

as for bitotech - blah, we barely scratched the surface and you behave like science is infallible...

biotech has its big risks, and corporate beourocratic way of control is wayyyy over-influenced by $$$ so that I cannot be really convinced that a new "wonder" species has no side effects... maybe the "fresh" tomatos can really last longer, but I am happy with the old ones too and who really benefits apart from Monsanto or some similar biotech firm "patenting" the new products

Why do these matters always degrade into a some form of anti-business/profascist rhetoric? Do you really believe a government run and funded plan wouldn't likewise be run by $$$?

No I don't believe that but I believe that banning gmo as a means to $$$ is a good start and leave the thing in the research labs to when we will really NEED it...

ie... you have a potential disease wiping out all of the bananas in the world... the threat is real use GMO to produce disease resistant species - funded by the gov, or UN or some politically/economically indifferent body.

I don't want my healthy tomatoes being replaced with longer lasting and potentially screwed up ones for profits of some gmo biotech firm.

and IMHO we will probably (hopefully) get 99 products right but that 1 wrong out of a hundred will be bloody expensive for the whole human race - as its pollen will spread, mating with the "normal" seeds, wiping them out and the "new" product will have some negative side effects so some bloody mistake will make us all pay tenfold for this whole fiasco - the biotech company will fold, its directors will sleep in mansions on millisons and we will be fcuked for next 50 years trying to correct what went wrong.

That's why I'd leave bioengineered stuff for the times we will really need it as opposed introduciing it now for financial gain.
yes - OT - sorry Pax but that no pollitics comment was asking too much

 

[Legion]

No I don't believe that but I believe that banning gmo as a means to $$$ is a good start and leave the thing in the research labs to when we will really NEED it...

ie... you have a potential disease wiping out all of the bananas in the world... the threat is real use GMO to produce disease resistant species - funded by the gov, or UN or some politically/economically indifferent body.

putting off, or banning the development of GMOs (Genetically Modified Organisms) limits our own progress and understanding within the field. The more corporations invest in Biotech facilities (who will develop more GMOs in response) the more likely we are to be prepared to develop a GMO resistant to a particular upcoming disease.

I don't want my healthy tomatoes being replaced with longer lasting and potentially screwed up ones for profits of some gmo biotech firm.

Come now, these products are tested long before they are ever released. They do not simply alter certain proteins within a plant turn to you and say "here are the seeds"

and IMHO we will probably (hopefully) get 99 products right but that 1 wrong out of a hundred will be bloody expensive for the whole human race

Nonsense.

Take for example Bt 176 corn. The problems related to it were avoided before they became terribly problematic.

I see no reason for your phobia other than what the media may have suggested to you. I am tempted to tell you to consider their source.

- as its pollen will spread, mating with the "normal" seeds, wiping them out and the "new" product will have some negative side effects so some bloody mistake will make us all pay tenfold for this whole fiasco - the biotech company will fold, its directors will sleep in mansions on millisons and we will be fcuked for next 50 years trying to correct what went wrong.

Evolution has caused the very same thing within natural species.

I am sorry, but i can not find any valid reason to take such allegations seriously. Especially considering the R&D that goes into developing GMOs. The USDA/EPA in particular have convinced me they have many safe guards in place to test GMOs for any potential threat.

That's why I'd leave bioengineered stuff for the times we will really need it as opposed introduciing it now for financial gain.

But there is a fundamental flaw in the logic. Will we be prepared when we need it if we prevent development?

 

[MfA]

This is getting like slashdot, do you people even RTFA? This has as much to do with nano-machines as ICs do.

To make an on topic reply ... even if you could get this kind of lens to work in the optical it would likely be frequency tuned to a very narrow band, so not much use as an optical lens for cameras and such. But I wouldnt take the naysayers too seriously, these same people were saying left handed materials could not exist at all. Until someone showed it worked for microwaves IRL.

Also there are Taiwanese researchers who have said they already have a thin film which acts this way for red light. Which is a very nice thing to have, since you can just spray it on a CD and have a super high density recording media with ancient cheap red laser tech (they also have patents out for using it as a way of focussing the laser from existing scanning optical microscopes, by putting a glass platter with the thin film on top of whatever is being scanned).

 

[Natoma]

Also Jehova's Witnesses aren't in any way against medicine. They are against blood transfusion, and that's it.

I was going to post something similar. Yeah JW, are pretty cool people, very friendly.

later,
epic

Not when they knock on my door at 5 in the morning dammit!

 

[pax]

Glad to hear about the killer corn not going commercial (I hope cross polenization hasnt occured and out in nature). Look up round up ready canola and let me know.

It was supposed to be sterile but wasnt. Probably a mutation occured somewhere down the road... Its now considered a weed but its round up resistant... Many fartmers associations have come forth saying they fear it'll pollute across the entire west being blocked only by its climate range. The kundzu of the west...

Want some oily canola with yer wheaties sir?