Nokia's Present & Future

Discussion in 'Mobile Industry' started by Arun, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. Florin

    Florin Merrily dodgy
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    I could see the 'we're only giving you 1 CPU, an older GPU, and half the memory of any other current device because that's all the OS needs' sales pitch working, IF the devices were actually noticeably cheaper than others.

    But that $300 - $500 or 'free with a 2 year contract' will easily get you something with much better internal specs, along with a sharper, brighter screen - which is something that anyone can see.

    I think your point about the spartan look of the WP7 interface is spot on, btw. It does nothing for the 'premium device' feel.
     
  2. french toast

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    YES!! finally someone gets what i have been on about round here!:razz:
     
  3. hoho

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    Well, they are pretty much giving away the 900 series phones while n9 with nearly the same innards costs €600+.

    Also, WP7 is still missing a ton of features many people have become used to having. Using a phone as a regular USB mass storage device is one of those things, SD card slot can be another.
     
  4. french toast

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    Yea but the freebies stop soon don't they?..that will be the full measure of whether the Lumia 900 will sell or not, would be funny if the N9 still outsold WP7:grin:
     
  5. hoho

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    It did outsell it roughly 3:1 in Q4 2011 :)
     
  6. french toast

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    Ha ha did it really?? lol:razz: Embarrassing or what!:oops:
     
  7. ToTTenTranz

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    Since 2010 that it was pretty much consensual that Nokia would need to sell smartphone models with an american O.S. to try to get a foot into the U.S.
    That was never the point..

    Then again.. given the universal acclaim of the Swipe UX, that might not have been necessary, but whatever.

    Nokia had publicly stated that Symbian would be gradually replaced by MeeGo for high-end phones, afaik back in 2009.
    Again, that was never the point either.


    - By the end of 2011, WP7 had been selling for ~1,5 years in all key markets (Germany, UK, USA, etc.), had ~20 models from 8 makers.
    - By the end 2011, MeeGo had been selling for ~3 months with 1 model from 1 maker, blocked from all the key markets.
    - Even though it was blocked in most major markets, in Q4 2011 Nokia alone sold ~2.5x more MeeGo handsets than all WP7 from all makers combined in the whole world.

    Therefore, that statement makes no sense.


    Speaking mobile, during the past 5 years Microsoft managed to:
    - Launch Zune into the market
    - Drop Zune
    - Launch Kin into the market
    - Drop Kin
    - Drop the 11 year-old PocketPC / Windows Mobile line
    - Launch WP7

    What was that thing about short attention span?

    It doesn't matter if they've poured a lot of money into it (Zune), or if it has a very large user base (WinMobile).
    If they find out the business won't be worth it in the long run, Microsoft will drop the "Windows Phone" brand, along with all their partners in the project.



    You mean, besides the blatant lack of features, functionality, differentiation between models, having phones launched in countries with no market support for many months while preventing manual applications installations and being rather expensive devices compared to much better equipped and supported Android models?

    Well besides that, T. Ahonen says the carrier stores all over the world are boycotting all sales of Windows Phone devices, due to Microsoft purchasing Skype a few months ago.
    Which kinda makes sense. When Microsoft enables every WP7 model to make near-free calls whenever the user is near a WiFi access point, people will stop using expensive carrier plans, which will cut deeply into the carrier revenues.. So why would the carriers be interested in supporting Microsoft?

    Yes, it was kind of a suicidal move from Microsoft regarding their Mobile division, but I bet it was still a very profitable decision for the company in the long run.
    Then again, it's yet another indicator of exactly how much Microsoft is "loyal" to their partners in the Mobile division.
     
  8. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil Anas platyrhynchos
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    The commitment level of these other manufacturers isn't at a same level as it is with Nokia. Basically your comparison isn't much more than N9 three months vs Lumia for about six weeks and also limited availability. I'm also under the impression that your number has fairly large margin for error. N9 also benefitted from various things like launching first and having some pent up demand being something truly new from Nokia with a beautiful form factor, I'm sceptical of how far that was going to take it. Had Lumia launched first with that form factor it would have captured many of those N9 sales.


    It's not hard to understand that WP and presence in tablets/mobile computing is by far strategically more important to MS than some those things + some of those will still somewhat carry on, just in different reshaped form.

    Xbox took pretty long time to get anything going for it and imo WP is at least as important to them. MS might not be as good as some other companies in creating "magical" products in their first or second try, but they have shown skill in iterating something until it get's the job done and imo that is what is happening with the WP. They needed Nokia on their side and they need to continue strengthen the ecosystem with more apps and features, better windows integration,better hardware and so on. They are on a road to do all that and now they have a committed partner in it.
     
  9. hoho

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    What could have these manufacturers do better when WP7 was in horrible state and still even now nearly 2 years later is missing basic functionality?
    Basically nokia divided the whole world in two separate markets:
    anything relevant got WP7, rest had N9. There were no big markets where both were sold side by side.
     
  10. Miksu

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    Can you list the basic features the phone is missing? I'm trying to get a clear picture if those features are something that the regular users are missing or if they're something only a tech person misses.
     
  11. Miksu

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    I don't know what features or functionality is missing for example if compared against the iPhone but it is true that the before the Lumia phones, most of the models were too similar. In what country the phone was officially launched before it got access to the Marketplace?

    I'm wondering what you mean by better support regarding Android? What kind of support Android phones have that Windows Phones are missing? I think Microsoft has handled the updates pretty well but do you mean something like support from 3rd party accessories?
     
  12. hoho

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    mass-storage mode, no sd card support, custom ringtones are PITA and need tons of work to get working, no tethering until recently and it's manufacturer-dependent if it's added or not and a somewhat Estonian-specific thing is that majority of their phones don't support mobile identification (digital signature with our national digital ID system) while the same chipset in Android fully supports it.

    From some older times that might have been fixed by now:
    using proxy wasn't supported
    no VPN
    no UI skinning-customization
    network API is not open to devs so networking 3'rd party apps are lacking


    There's probably more but those are the main things I gathered up on a WP7 thread in another forum where users ocasionally pop in and wonder why the hell they can't do stuff they've been doing on other phone OSes for years.
    Estonia was one of the countries that got support just a couple of weeks ago and still the marketplace is nearly empty for us vs the situation we see when we have our user in e.g UK.
     
  13. french toast

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    Basically The Lumia 900 is a decent bit of kit, and is well spec'd, but it does still lack some hardware features because of WP7 restrictions..such as;

    -Dual/quad core processors
    -Ram
    -GPU
    -Bandwidth
    -1080p video recording
    -HD displays
    -Micro SD card slot
    -Decent storage in phone aka 32gb 64gb...
    -TV out/HDMI?
    -Different form factors..ie Qwerty keyboard, dual screens, etc.
    -Slim profile handsets??
    -Decent gaming experiece/Lack of high quality apps/variety

    And many more im sure. BUT None of that matters so much as long as the phone is priced accordingly..The Lumia 900 has some great attributes...such as the CBD..LTE, bundled apps etc..it appears they are selling well because Microsft/Nokia are practically giving them away...it remains to be seen how popular they will be when the offers ware off. :???:

    I want Nokia WP8 with decent hardware..so i want this to start selling pronto..:smile:
     
  14. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil Anas platyrhynchos
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    Well first I have to say that there is an enormous gap between could and should. The thing is they probably shouldn't have done anything differently. I didn't mean that they did something wrong, their eggs just were in a different basket and one tends to put more focus, effort and money to the basket with the most eggs. They have no reason to put WP in front of their Android phones thus they have lower commitment. Nokia has most of their eggs in the WP basket and their efforts go there.

    WP needs full commitment from an established player to become relevant, not one or two also ran phones which are overshadowed by the rest of your line up.
     
  15. Silent_Buddha

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    Not a wise move if you're already heavily supply limited with the phone in question. As well, other carriers may not have been willing to push the phone as aggressively as AT&T were. Similar to how not many carriers other than AT&T were willing to take a chance on pushing the iPhone heavily when it launched.

    IMO, it has more to do with no carrier's actually pushing the phone. And salespeople in retail locations were also generally unwilling to push the phone. For a saleperson it makes a lot more sense to push a high priced iPhone, for example, which not only carries a large commision but is also well recognized by your typical smartphone consumer.

    As AT&T has shown, with the right push, you can move quite a few units. Apparently significantly more units than Nokia was expecting to move.

    So basically some of the same things that are missing or difficult to achieve on iPhone without hacking it?

    Regards,
    SB
     
  16. wco81

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    Yeah I think MS deliberately chose the same walled-garden approach as iPhone for WP7.

    So I don't think it's the lack of those features like SD card or removable batteries which is holding back sales. At least they haven't held back iPhone sales.
     
  17. hoho

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    But these are the main points that are constantly brought up in that thread by would-be users. With those limits it's pretty much impossible to win over Android users that are grown used to having them.
     
  18. dagamer

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    To re-iterate:

    -Dual/quad core processors WP8
    -Ram WP8
    -GPU MSM8960 which will require WP8
    -Bandwidth Umm... huh?
    -1080p video recording Better ISP found in Snapdragon S4 again requiring WP8
    -HD displays WP8
    -Micro SD card slot WP8
    -Decent storage in phone aka 32gb 64gb... actually, this one could come now...
    -TV out/HDMI? unknown
    -Different form factors..ie Qwerty keyboard, dual screens, etc. Qwerty has already been done, dual screens have flopped on Android. No one is going to try that again
    -Slim profile handsets?? All-day battery life > slim phone IMO
    -Decent gaming experiece/Lack of high quality apps/variety Unmanaged DirectX code coming in WP8

    So yeah... Windows Phone 8 should be big.
     
  19. dagamer

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    Those users are such a small percentage of the market that that is NOT the reason why Android has 50% marketshare. It's because the OS is free and on cheap phones that will probably never get updated.
     
  20. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
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    I may not understand much but this rant about "dual cores hurt more than help" sounds really out of place /whinning.
    I mean if they want a fast core why aren't they moving faster to A15 cpu? In which case having an A7 would be great to keep thing under control> Hey! that's a dual core..

    It might be to early for a A15 A& combo, but how about something akin to Nvidia Approach with tegra3 but with only two cores, one fast the other slow?

    I don't they are not doing the chip themselves anyway but I would be surprised that Say Nv (given time but the shift to dual core is not new either) would not be willing to delivers them a tegra3 light. It's clearly a cheap excuse as they are neither working on or looking for workarounds...
     
    #800 liolio, Apr 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2012
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