Nintendo's WARSAW pact
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CeiserSöze
Newcomer
Retro = Rare without the mistakes Nintendo did with Rare I suppose. Instead of just having a minority interest they fully own (and therefore control) Retro so the guys won't be able do any "funny things" like Rare did at the end (Conker, a game Nintendo didn't like at all, and SFA obviously not being up to Nintendo standards - which especially shows when comparing it to Wind Waker btw).
Though I wonder if Steve Barcia will leave Retro too now that he has been replaced...
Though I wonder if Steve Barcia will leave Retro too now that he has been replaced...
Retro, won't be anything like rare for years to come. There's only one dev team there and under 40 employees (probably closer to 30 possibly). I'm good friends with a person that helped set the studio up, and he's still in constant contact with them.
If someone said this before they had three projects canned, I would have agreed (although at that time they weren't owned by nintendo). rare has over 200 employees, might be closer to 230, but I can't recall the exact number.
Now regarding starfox not being up to nintendo standards? I hardly think thats true and there's no indication that's true. Starfox was a N64 game that had a graphical face lift (a lift imposed on them by Nintendo). No wonder it was a collectct-a-thon and the environments were reused as much as possible to make the game longer.
If someone said this before they had three projects canned, I would have agreed (although at that time they weren't owned by nintendo). rare has over 200 employees, might be closer to 230, but I can't recall the exact number.
Now regarding starfox not being up to nintendo standards? I hardly think thats true and there's no indication that's true. Starfox was a N64 game that had a graphical face lift (a lift imposed on them by Nintendo). No wonder it was a collectct-a-thon and the environments were reused as much as possible to make the game longer.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
the problem with SFA wasnt that it wasnt pretty or even that it was a collectathon, its that, the best way to describe it, is its a Zelda clone, except they mainly just took the bad of Zelda, not the good...
SFA is linear, the combat is pointless(if you lose a fight, your sad...)
its a very point A to point B experience, this would have been ok about 8 years ago, but today, we demand a bit more freedom. the Barrel tossing is a total bore, there are other parts which are just total frustration(when you have to carry explosives up a ramp that has barrels coming at you to make you drop it, a 3 foot wide ramp I might add..). Flying levels are a pointless bore. There are a few moments of fun, but they seem to be very short.. SFA is not a game, its an experimentation with making pretty graphics and copying the zelda formula, without properly putting it into action. I wont say its because they were not capable, personally, I think its because they just didnt care anymore, either way, the game is far from Nintendo Standards.
SFA is linear, the combat is pointless(if you lose a fight, your sad...)
its a very point A to point B experience, this would have been ok about 8 years ago, but today, we demand a bit more freedom. the Barrel tossing is a total bore, there are other parts which are just total frustration(when you have to carry explosives up a ramp that has barrels coming at you to make you drop it, a 3 foot wide ramp I might add..). Flying levels are a pointless bore. There are a few moments of fun, but they seem to be very short.. SFA is not a game, its an experimentation with making pretty graphics and copying the zelda formula, without properly putting it into action. I wont say its because they were not capable, personally, I think its because they just didnt care anymore, either way, the game is far from Nintendo Standards.
Rare had too many people considering the rate of game outputs, that is the problem.
I hope they'll improve just giving me a reason to own a Xbox
Starfox was bad and bland, i did not even finished it. I think Rare did not want to do that game or something like that. That is the feeling I got playing the game "what should I care about a game the devs did not care themselves ??"
I want the old Rare back, on any platform
I hope they'll improve just giving me a reason to own a Xbox
Starfox was bad and bland, i did not even finished it. I think Rare did not want to do that game or something like that. That is the feeling I got playing the game "what should I care about a game the devs did not care themselves ??"
I want the old Rare back, on any platform
SFA was decidedly mediocre. I'd say a 8.0/10 mostly for technical merits with some solid gameplay here and there.
Put it next to any of Nintendo's other recent adventure games (Zelda, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Mario Sunshine) or Rare's recent work (Conker) and I don't see how you can defend the game. It's just an average game with a few up's but more down's.
IMO, you've got very particular tastes if you think SFA > SMS (a common argument) because the latter rapes and pillages the former fun-factor-wise. CaptainHowdy was right when he said that SFA took cues from Zelda.. but f'ed 'em up.
I expect Kameo to be a much better game.. because as Quincy stated, SFA had a flawed development.
Put it next to any of Nintendo's other recent adventure games (Zelda, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Mario Sunshine) or Rare's recent work (Conker) and I don't see how you can defend the game. It's just an average game with a few up's but more down's.
IMO, you've got very particular tastes if you think SFA > SMS (a common argument) because the latter rapes and pillages the former fun-factor-wise. CaptainHowdy was right when he said that SFA took cues from Zelda.. but f'ed 'em up.
I expect Kameo to be a much better game.. because as Quincy stated, SFA had a flawed development.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
Blade said:
if they werent making Xbox games, they would still be just an OK company, now that MS owns them, they are amazing.
this is the part where they turn it all around, and say its the oppisite scenario, the majority of the world just didnt like SFA because Rare left..
hey, its not Rare that bad, its SFA... I will miss the hell out of Perfect Dark 0.. But Kameo, Banjo and such, I could care less about.
Captain,
You couldn't be more wrong. I was arguing about Rare being one of 2 reasons to own a nintendo console LONG before they were making xbox games. as I've been saying for a very long time, Rare is the same company they always have been. a good one, and nothing has changed since they were with nintendo.
The majority? There's nothing close to a majority not liking the game, however I would agree with you that many people started to not lik the game after they found about about the switch. 81% average on gamerankings after 132 reviews.
Fair enough I agree that nothing is wrong with rare. It's perfectly fine to not like the game. I don't agree that the majority of people felt that way.
You couldn't be more wrong. I was arguing about Rare being one of 2 reasons to own a nintendo console LONG before they were making xbox games. as I've been saying for a very long time, Rare is the same company they always have been. a good one, and nothing has changed since they were with nintendo.
The majority? There's nothing close to a majority not liking the game, however I would agree with you that many people started to not lik the game after they found about about the switch. 81% average on gamerankings after 132 reviews.
Fair enough I agree that nothing is wrong with rare. It's perfectly fine to not like the game. I don't agree that the majority of people felt that way.
Rare lacks talent. Not in the technical department (their code and effects are slick as sh... Well, as, um, slick. ), but there is a huge vacuum in the design department. They couldn't design an original game if their life depended on it it seems, they even rip off themselves for crying out loud!
Goldeneye was their last truly great title, since then it's only been derivative of derivatives. How many of the Goldeneye team remain at Rare these days? A big chunk of them left to found their own company I believe a while after the game was completed.
More have probably quit since.
I predict Kameo is more of the same. Maybe they'll cut down on the cute since the XB is supposed to be a "mature" title, but if there aren't any fucking moogles that needs to be rescued or runes to be collected or something of that sort I'll grind up and eat my Gamecube.
*G*
), but there is a huge vacuum in the design department. They couldn't design an original game if their life depended on it it seems, they even rip off themselves for crying out loud!Goldeneye was their last truly great title, since then it's only been derivative of derivatives. How many of the Goldeneye team remain at Rare these days? A big chunk of them left to found their own company I believe a while after the game was completed.
More have probably quit since.
I predict Kameo is more of the same. Maybe they'll cut down on the cute since the XB is supposed to be a "mature" title, but if there aren't any fucking moogles that needs to be rescued or runes to be collected or something of that sort I'll grind up and eat my Gamecube.
*G*
Grall said:Rare lacks talent. Not in the technical department (their code and effects are slick as sh... Well, as, um, slick.
Goldeneye was their last truly great title, since then it's only been derivative of derivatives. How many of the Goldeneye team remain at Rare these days? A big chunk of them left to found their own company I believe a while after the game was completed.
Conker's BFD and Jet Force Gemini were great originals; it's too bad JFG had such poor sales.
And you're thinking of Free Radical Design, makers of TimeSplitters/2
Rare had 200 employees preMS buyout but alot of employees left when Nintendo sold. Martin Hollis with Zoonami hired 8 or 9 ppl. Some ppl went to Free Radical and I want to say Codemasters and Eurocom hired several. Not sure about the Codemasters one but I know Eurocom hired several ppl from Rare.
I'd be hard to put a number on Rare right now but I'd say at the time of the buyout (little bit after) they had in the sub 150 range. But by now they've proly gotten close to where they were..especially with them hiring ppl with no video game experience.
I'd be hard to put a number on Rare right now but I'd say at the time of the buyout (little bit after) they had in the sub 150 range. But by now they've proly gotten close to where they were..especially with them hiring ppl with no video game experience.
Qroach said:
Uh, I am? Completely off the mark? You SURE about that?
What title have they made the last couple years that was original, really? Conker? Apart from the sorta smutty humor, what about it is original really? Seems like pretty standard 3D platformer fare to me.
All the other titles fall into the "derivative of derivates" category. Goldeneye was cool because it had that sneak element in it, but unfortunately it lost that in later levels in the game, then it became guns blazing standard FPS fare. It was still fresh for a console 1st person SHMUP though.
*G*
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Rare will prove themselves, just like Bungie did.
SFA was a good game that I enjoyed more than SMS.
I noticed that only the big Nintendo fans have negative things to say about Rare on this board. Not too surprising...
I'd be curious to hear what Ozy, Vince, Democoder, ERP, and Faf had to say about Rare. They are a tad less biased than Nintendo fans and QRoach and myself on the other side of the question.
SFA was a good game that I enjoyed more than SMS.
I noticed that only the big Nintendo fans have negative things to say about Rare on this board. Not too surprising...
I'd be curious to hear what Ozy, Vince, Democoder, ERP, and Faf had to say about Rare. They are a tad less biased than Nintendo fans and QRoach and myself on the other side of the question.
So you discount conkers because you obviously feel it had some originality. You know, I'm not going to limit how many original Rares games have been, since they have made coutless original games in the past and present.
Blastcorps, goldeneye, conkers, jetforce gemini to name some over the last couple years dating back to the start of the N64, and I'm sure they are going to have some more original games.
Saying that they couldn't design an original game if thier life depended on it really IS off the mark.
Goldeni
That's not what happened from what I heard, and it was said to be a rumor started by a small group of people on the net. They certainly didn't loose 25% of ther staff (50 people as you said even though I'm sure they had more than 200 to begin with.) Some people left, but it wasn't anything out of the ordinary employee turnover from a video game company from what some rare employees posted on the net.
They never dipped below 200 from what I was told. The company has an extremly low turnover rate.
Who says they are hiring people with "no video game experience"? If it's a art related job like an "Object modeler" then you don't have to "require" the person had any experience. Who's also to say that their hiring requirements have changed at all since working with Nintendo?
To be honest, I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. What you've written is nothing more than a feeling or opinion on what you think(or would like) to happen.
That's not what happened from what I heard, and it was said to be a rumor started by a small group of people on the net. They certainly didn't loose 25% of ther staff (50 people as you said even though I'm sure they had more than 200 to begin with.) Some people left, but it wasn't anything out of the ordinary employee turnover from a video game company from what some rare employees posted on the net.
They never dipped below 200 from what I was told. The company has an extremly low turnover rate.
Who says they are hiring people with "no video game experience"? If it's a art related job like an "Object modeler" then you don't have to "require" the person had any experience. Who's also to say that their hiring requirements have changed at all since working with Nintendo?
To be honest, I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. What you've written is nothing more than a feeling or opinion on what you think(or would like) to happen.
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