Nice fuel saving solution!

these times I'm thinking a mandatory electronic speed limiter at 130 km/h would be nice. the idea is not new but my stance has changed on it.

I got another idea then, I'd make personal cars with more than 100hp illegal :oops: (sale of new cars that is). we already have a 100hp legal limit for motorbikes here, afterall :).
 
Diesel will soon be gone for good, at least as we know it today. Exhaust limits.

I don't think so. Not before the petrol engine at any rate.

While some of the exhaust limit problems still exist with the diesels, the most important limit as of late has become CO2 emission. At least here in Sweden we now classify cars by CO2 g/km. If you get under 120 g/km, you get classified as having a "environment class" car and get a heap of tax rebates and other perks. Only teeny-tiny shopping trolleys like Smart and Peugeot 107/Citroën C1 have a prayer of meeting 120 g/km ...and diesels. The new Citroën C4 w/ 110hp HDi does that for instance. For comparable engines in the same model car, the petrol engine will put out 60-80% more CO2. I think a reasonable assumption would be that Al Gore doesn't approve. ;)

I think the emissions other than CO2 will simply be relegated to second order of significance if we're going to meet our Kyoto goals and whatnot, at least for the time being.
 
I also don't see any of the interesting alternative powerplants ever coming to fruition. HCCI is something so many people seem to like to talk about, but I don't think it will ever live for real outside of MAYBE a small hybrid. All the outliers like the ox2s, the Veselovskys, the ball-piston, the Scuderi split-cycle, the randcams, the axial vectors, the quasiturbines... none of them will ever make it into production. The concern for environmentalists is not more thermodynamic efficiency, but about not having to be concerned with lack thereof (i.e. alternative fuels).
 
We don't habve Camrys here, not being sold in Germany.

Rainbow Man: I see no problem whatsoever giving it a new chassis and adding a few seats and whatnot. It will still have 180 bhp and require maybe 20% more fuel, which is still damn low consumption.


No wonder you don't want to start talking Lexus. ;) their hybrid models are targetted exactly to same market as the cars your employer / working place makes the most money out of it. Plus, they do not look like cows bottoms, just because europeans have been calling Lexus as the copycatter of Mercedes. (and if Lexus would look like cow's bottom, then it would mean that Merceds looks that as well... and that is not the message we want to sign here. ;) )

Lexus GS450h for example, has quite nice performance specs, to be such a heavy car and only having 3.5 liter V6 engine. In aggressive driving, system uses both engines, so you get quite lot of torque. Even though it's not exactly the sum of the engines, it's still remarkable boost, especially when acceleration starts from slow speeds. (The 0-100km/h acceleration time is quick: 5.9 secs.) Unfortunately, they aren't telling what's the combined max torque from the system, but because Electric Engines give their max torque in low rpm and gasoline engine again usually gives max torque in mid rpm range, it's not that informative value anyways, Still the torque range is much longer and starting much lower than just gas powered drivetrains.)

the specs:

Hybrid system:
total combined output 254 kW(345hp)

Gasoline Engine:
max power output 218/6400 hp/rpm
max torque 368/4800 Nm/rpm

Electric Engine:
max rpm 14400 rpm
max power output 147 kW
max torque 275 Nm
 
I also don't see any of the interesting alternative powerplants ever coming to fruition.
You've got our friendly neighborhood multinational car manufacturer conglomerates to thank for that.

They've refined the standard otto style piston engine down to a fine work of art. It's not a smart solution really. But it's workable and they've spent billions and billions on research and development of various models at different sizes and power output levels so they can most likely calculate down to the HOURS (and maybe MINUTES) when a part in it is likely to fail and for what reason.

The costs associated with switching to a different engine type with a lot of unknowns and little to no real backlog of knowledge about its finer points of behavior is just not going to be commercially interesting/feasible.

The concern for environmentalists is not more thermodynamic efficiency, but about not having to be concerned with lack thereof (i.e. alternative fuels).
Erm?

The concerns of an environmentalist is the environment, and thus to release as little pollutants as possible for a particular amount of work carried out. How htis is accomplished is inconsequential; nobody that truly cares about this planet is playing favorites for any particular technology.



We want the best solution and if that involves an axial vector whatever (never heard of it - must be a conspiracy) or a bunch of trained mice running in a wheel driving a generator it really makes no difference.



Peac.e
 
The costs associated with switching to a different engine type with a lot of unknowns and little to no real backlog of knowledge about its finer points of behavior is just not going to be commercially interesting/feasible.
True, but forgetting about all the off-the-wall designs and attempts to make radical changes like the split-cycle or 6-stroke thing, there are plenty out there that are already points of research for nearly every manufacturer (HCCI being one of those), and also long-since proven technologies like diesel. The death knell for diesel has always been the associated stigma.

Even otherwise, the fact that they are as heavily regulated as they are is yet another detriment to progress (not that it's a totally unfounded regulation). Someone could create a miracle engine right now that can run for 80 years without a single problem, but also be designed with planned obsolescence to the microsecond and produce 800 hp while consuming 1.15 l/100 km and run on anything from petrol to cat urine, and it would still take 50+ years before it would ever make it to market, if at all (my money's on the latter).

The concerns of an environmentalist is the environment, and thus to release as little pollutants as possible for a particular amount of work carried out. How htis is accomplished is inconsequential; nobody that truly cares about this planet is playing favorites for any particular technology.
I should have said "environmental lobbyists"... the ones who try to push for things like ethanol as if it was some end-all answer. What I was saying is that nobody is trying to improve the powertrain itself. They're trying to push for things that ensure that the powertrain's inefficiency is not an issue.

And in general, a lot of those ideas are emphatically stupid. They're just easy to sell, because environmental lobbyists are politicians all the same, and the problem is that the random people who claim to care about the planet lap it up blindly.

We want the best solution and if that involves an axial vector whatever (never heard of it - must be a conspiracy) or a bunch of trained mice running in a wheel driving a generator it really makes no difference.
Well, the axial vector thing was just an example, and that's really nothing more than an alternative way of going through the Otto cycle. Specifically, that the pistons ride on a cam and their motion causes the cam to turn -- I can only assume that it's called "Axial Vector" because the rotation of the cam (which is basically the crank) is on the same axis that the pistons move. Still, some twenty-odd companies were posing pretty much the same idea, and I'm kind of surprised they're actually still around.
 
No. Only hybrids here are Prius, Honda Civic and Lexus.

and Altima has no history in europe. the model has not been shipped here during it's lifetime.

It will be interesting to see, which european manufacturer is the first one to jump hybrids... afaik VAG has Hybrid tech licensed from Toyota (as well as the Ford.) and because Audi is going towards more efficient diesels, I wouldn't be suprised to see hybrid Golf in few years.
 
and Altima has no history in europe. the model has not been shipped here during it's lifetime.

It will be interesting to see, which european manufacturer is the first one to jump hybrids... afaik VAG has Hybrid tech licensed from Toyota (as well as the Ford.) and because Audi is going towards more efficient diesels, I wouldn't be suprised to see hybrid Golf in few years.
with already pre-announced Golf-BlueMotion with 4l/100km, why should we care about hybrids?
Expensive tech, more probability of failures, more expensive and dirty to produce ...
 
I wouldn't be suprised to see hybrid Golf in few years.

You will see pretty much every european car "hybridized" within 2-4 years. All manufacturers are working on them right now, VW is already near completion from what I heard, Porsche and Audi are sharing the tech with them. BMW already has the first soft-hybrid out there (1 series), with more coming next year.
 
You will see pretty much every european car "hybridized" within 2-4 years. All manufacturers are working on them right now, VW is already near completion from what I heard, Porsche and Audi are sharing the tech with them. BMW already has the first soft-hybrid out there (1 series), with more coming next year.


I am certainly expecting this, because (this is just my imho) right now it's easiest way to start changing things towards other alternative power sources like hydrogen fuel cells. As long as the fuel stations are mostly selling just oil based fuels, there's definetely need to have gas engine as well and Hybrid technology isn't only limited having just electric and gas, but also could have fuel cell system included to provide hydrogen as fuel where it's available.

I don't expect Hybrids to be the final sollution, but more like easy way to provide bridge between upcoming new fuel systems and the good old gas.
 
Well the actual reasons are more business-related ("OMG, Toyota is killing our sales and rules the hybrid market and has the best image - we must do something FAST!"), but it's a nice development this way or the other.
 
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