Nforce2 DSP vs Audigy2 ZS
- Thread starter phenix
- Start date
When I switched over I noticed I could hear things in music that I'd not heard before with the Live. I mix CDs a lot for myself and friends, so I spend hours listening to each track quite often. (of course it's all very subjective)
But, wow, I'd recommend quality speakers first if you need to make a choice. I can't stress enough how nice these Promedias sound.
The biggest problem with the Live, IMO, is that Creative has given up on the drivers as far as I can tell. And, I KNOW the EMU10K1 is very capable of doing a lot of what the Audigy does. If you gave EMU10K1 some quality DACs and a good OP, it would be superior to ENVY24 for gaming. It has hardware acceleration of at least 32 3D channels (64 on the kx drivers), and can probably do some more EAX stuff. But, obviously it's not in Creative's best interests to enhance old products.
But, wow, I'd recommend quality speakers first if you need to make a choice. I can't stress enough how nice these Promedias sound.
The biggest problem with the Live, IMO, is that Creative has given up on the drivers as far as I can tell. And, I KNOW the EMU10K1 is very capable of doing a lot of what the Audigy does. If you gave EMU10K1 some quality DACs and a good OP, it would be superior to ENVY24 for gaming. It has hardware acceleration of at least 32 3D channels (64 on the kx drivers), and can probably do some more EAX stuff. But, obviously it's not in Creative's best interests to enhance old products.
_xxx_ said:
Ugh... of course you can record 24 bits WAVs on Audigy 2 ZS. It's may not be very clear from analog recording (its ADC is not very good), but when recording from SPDIF with "accurate bit" enabled, it results in perfect 24 bits recording (the digital source is another sound card).
Guden Oden said:Nite_Hawk said:
Is it a TANGIBLE difference tho? Ie, can you even hear it with typical computer amps/speakers and over the whine of cooling fans, harddrives?
...
You want pro audio, then buy a pro audio card... Gaming si teh Audigy territory.
The difference is easily audiable, even with the cheap-o desktop speakers. Especially if you set output to 96 KHz and watch a DVD, it's like night and day.
I agree: Audigy => gaming, Envy24 => everything else.
There's also the possibility to have both in your machine, like I do
pcchen said:
I was not talking about digital. I meant rather plugging in your guitar, mic, etc. through line-in and recording stuff. Sure you can do 24 bits, but the quality is awful when compared to Envy24 or better HW. The input volume level is also PITA with all Creative cards.
_xxx_ said:
Yes, Audigy 1/2's analog is not stellar. But as I said in my previous post, it's mainly becasue of its not-so-good DAC/ADC and analog design, not because it has "16 bits internal processing."
Currently there are many low cost high quality audio cards, if you need them (high quality audio cards tend to be bad at gaming, though). EMU's 1212M or 0404 are very cheap, but 1212M has very good DAC/ADC. 0404 is probably cheaper than Audigy 2 ZS.
I don't have a 0404, but I have a 1212M. They should be quite close in gaming performance.
There is no EAX support in 1212M. Not any. Even though the 1212M has a EMU10k2 chip, just as Audigy 2. And of course you can't have surround sound from 1212M, since it has only two channel analog output.
Otherwise, at least 1212M has a working WDM driver now (earlier driver has some problems). You can at least hear sounds in games. High quality sounds. But that's it. No fancy effects nor HRTF nor surround sounds.
By the way, the new driver does enable 1212M to use some hardware FX effects, but that's only avaiable to professional usages (through VST only IIRC).
I also have DAL's CardDeluxe, which is also a high end sound card, and about twice as expensive as 1212M. Its DAC and ADC are not as good as 1212M, but it has good OP, and it sounds as good as 1212M although the specification may not be as good. However, its driver status is even worse. For a long time CardDeluxe only have MME driver (no WDM). It doesn't not work in some games. Now it has a beta WDM driver, but that's not very pretty.
Generally lower end cards tend to have better support for games. Many Envy24 based cards are fairly good at playing games, but it still depends on the driver.
Currently I have both Audigy 2 ZS and 1212M coexist in my machine. I use Audigy 2 ZS for gaming, and 1212M for other works (listening to music or sometimes composing silly musics). I used to connect the digital output of Audigy 2 ZS to the digital input of 1212M, trying to save the trouble of switching between the cards. However, it seems the SPDIF output of my Audigy 2 ZS is not very stable, sometimes it "cracks."
My advice is, if you have fairly good speakers and you care about sound quality, or you need to do some recording works, you may want to check those "high end cards." However, if you have a surround speaker set-up and play games alot, you'll want an Audigy 2 ZS.
There is no EAX support in 1212M. Not any. Even though the 1212M has a EMU10k2 chip, just as Audigy 2. And of course you can't have surround sound from 1212M, since it has only two channel analog output.
Otherwise, at least 1212M has a working WDM driver now (earlier driver has some problems). You can at least hear sounds in games. High quality sounds. But that's it. No fancy effects nor HRTF nor surround sounds.
By the way, the new driver does enable 1212M to use some hardware FX effects, but that's only avaiable to professional usages (through VST only IIRC).
I also have DAL's CardDeluxe, which is also a high end sound card, and about twice as expensive as 1212M. Its DAC and ADC are not as good as 1212M, but it has good OP, and it sounds as good as 1212M although the specification may not be as good. However, its driver status is even worse. For a long time CardDeluxe only have MME driver (no WDM). It doesn't not work in some games. Now it has a beta WDM driver, but that's not very pretty.
Generally lower end cards tend to have better support for games. Many Envy24 based cards are fairly good at playing games, but it still depends on the driver.
Currently I have both Audigy 2 ZS and 1212M coexist in my machine. I use Audigy 2 ZS for gaming, and 1212M for other works (listening to music or sometimes composing silly musics). I used to connect the digital output of Audigy 2 ZS to the digital input of 1212M, trying to save the trouble of switching between the cards. However, it seems the SPDIF output of my Audigy 2 ZS is not very stable, sometimes it "cracks."
My advice is, if you have fairly good speakers and you care about sound quality, or you need to do some recording works, you may want to check those "high end cards." However, if you have a surround speaker set-up and play games alot, you'll want an Audigy 2 ZS.
Terratec Aureon cards, as well as DMX fire 24/96 all support surround setup up to 7.1. There's also one from Turtle beach, dunno how it's called. All of these have Envy24. Terratec has great AD/DA as well. And than there are some Phillips cards, with a proprietary chip called Thunderbird and 5.1 QSound HW-acceleration.
All of them support EAX 1 and 2, Sensaura and A3D. All are also slower than Audigy when using 3D, though.
All of them support EAX 1 and 2, Sensaura and A3D. All are also slower than Audigy when using 3D, though.
Well ok.
Serious Gamer who still wants excellent audio quality but also full hardware acceleration of all gaming audio standards:
Audigy 2 ZS (Soundstorm's only advantage is dolby digital output to home receivers if you have one: it doesn't support EAX 3+, and the drivers are somewhat buggy)
Musician / Light Gamer:
Envy 24
Very Serious Musician who is indifferent about games:
Something from EMU or maybe some higher end Envy card, or a card from one of the many music equipment companies we pc enthusiasts know very little of
Serious Gamer who still wants excellent audio quality but also full hardware acceleration of all gaming audio standards:
Audigy 2 ZS (Soundstorm's only advantage is dolby digital output to home receivers if you have one: it doesn't support EAX 3+, and the drivers are somewhat buggy)
Musician / Light Gamer:
Envy 24
Very Serious Musician who is indifferent about games:
Something from EMU or maybe some higher end Envy card, or a card from one of the many music equipment companies we pc enthusiasts know very little of
_xxx_ said:
That article uses an old driver (because the article is old). It has been demonstrated that newer driver can record in 24 bits, at least in digital.
In analog the DAC/ADC decides the dynamic range, so you can't really argue that "because its dynamic range is bad so it must not be 24 bits."
