Nextgen movie

[BOOMEXPLODE]

I think the quality difference in those two shots is perceived rather than actual. The second one looks prettier mostly because of the dramatic angle and motion blur. Ignore the grass, just look at the #5 charachter, it's the same in both shots.

 

[Acert93]

50x of "They show FMV in commercials do this is a non-topic and should have ended on B3D a long time ago"

All nice and good and stuff... but as for the "EA said it was FMV" the entire point is lost on you: EA did not present it to the masses as FMV...

They presented it as NEXT GEN MADDEN. This has nothing to do with your ad hoc comments about FMV commercials.

Only a very few people are aware that it is an artist concept (i.e. those who saw the game news site articles). This commercial was presented to the masses, their customers, as Next Gen Madden--which it is not. This has nothing to do with "FMV in current commercials"--for this is not even FMV (remember, final product is better blah blah blah). EA was showing people what Next Gen Madden is... errr, is not.

I find it even funnier that this in some way is "FMV"--how is that representative of next gen graphics?

"Hey look Bobby, EA just showed their Next Gen Madden FMV! Wow, that FMV is hot man! My Xbox cannot stream that type of FMV off the DVD, you need a new X2 to get that type of streaming because the current Hardware cannot have FMV cut scenes like that! Man, I am so stoked to watch those next gen cut scenes come fall!"

Yeah, I cannot wait for my next gen FMV! Woot!

I could care less about other commercials (two wrongs and all the other stuff). Fact is the average consumer watching the commercial definately gets the feeling from what the add says that this is what they will be getting (for better or worse) somewhere in the game--even if it is replies. From what EA stated this is not even game footage but offline rendered concept art.

Ea has said to expect even better than this so by your reasoning of the current gen game advertising its okay or even better that they made this comercial as some where in the game for better or worse they will get this quality or better

Obviously you were unable to follow the line of reasoning. This has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the usage of FMV in commercials (Note: did you not see my comment about two wrongs do not equal a right? Your comment is neither here nor there). Next Gen Madden commecial was presented to the masses (re: even people here, who are not the masses, have not read the IGN/Gamespot scoops that this is not real) as some form of game footage, and (b) whether next gen Madden looks better is an unknown factor--if you are waiting on the baited words of a PR rep from EA then good luck.

And, "to follow your reasoning" (to take a page out of your book), when they show "mock up" FMV footage at E3 and present it as "Next Gen MGS" and "Next Gen GTA4" and promise "The real thing will look better" we should take it at face value. What kind of reasoning is that jvd!

Oh wait, that was not your reasoning, just like the words you stuck in my mouth were not mine. I am willing to bet money you will be one of the people here constantly reminding people that the PS3 game footage shown is emulated/artist concepts and it is unfair to compare it to the X2 because the X2 = Final Game Footage and the PS3 != Final Game Footage.

 

[_phil_]

The second one looks prettier mostly because of the dramatic angle and motion blur.

i disagree.the whole lighting is better in the second ,and that motionblur looks like a real 3d motion blur ,not a full frame buffer 2d remanence (the usual trick).The real 3d motion blur would cost way more.
.
..and don't ignore the grass.Even if the models in the 2 scenes are the same ,the rendering is not the same method.

 

[PC-Engine]

The second one looks prettier mostly because of the dramatic angle and motion blur.

i disagree.the whole lighting is better in the second ,and that motionblur looks like a real 3d motion blur ,not a full frame buffer 2d remanence (the usual trick).The real 3d motion blur would cost way more.
.
..and don't ignore the grass.Even if the models in the 2 scenes are the same ,the rendering is not the same method.

Can you describe what real 3D motion blur is?

 

[_phil_]

it's more accurate in case of z-layering of moving objects.in fact the 2nd screen looks like it also features sub-frame interpolated motion blur.

Edit :
BTW such article add conviction to me as a game artist ,that more and more nextgen will be about mastering that "2D moving space" ,the screen.The clever use of 2d processing.
http://journalofvision.org/3/9/782/

 

[cthellis42]

I basically have to agree with jvd here, though... I haven't seen ANY game commercial call attention to the CG sequences they put in--many times 100% of the game "footage"--and of course all are simply presented in the light of "look at our cool game!" It's the kind of slick marketing maneuver we see all over, but it's really up to the consumer to not get caught up in it.

I'd be a little more annoyed if they were playing fast and loose at, say, a press holding at a gaming convention or something, but commercials have basically been "fair game" in that way since FFVII--and have only increase in frequency over time.

 

[Qroach]

I think this is a case of someone trying too hard to find something wrong about teh entire thing. I mean really what's the point? It's a bloddy commercial.

 

[Iron Tiger]

The second one looks prettier mostly because of the dramatic angle and motion blur.

i disagree.the whole lighting is better in the second ,and that motionblur looks like a real 3d motion blur ,not a full frame buffer 2d remanence (the usual trick).The real 3d motion blur would cost way more.
.
..and don't ignore the grass.Even if the models in the 2 scenes are the same ,the rendering is not the same method.

They've also got apparently different skin shaders, the coloring of the jersey is different, and they are using a different technique to make the helmet reflections. The helmets look more like just specular highlights on the second shot, which is fine by me, as it looks more realistic.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I think the quality difference in those two shots is perceived rather than actual. The second one looks prettier mostly because of the dramatic angle and motion blur. Ignore the grass, just look at the #5 charachter, it's the same in both shots.

I very much disagree. it is not just the camera angle difference, it is the complexity and quality of the graphics. the older shot, that turned out to be the Sack Cam portion of the ad, is rendered using far more polygons, far better lighting, much more anti-aliasing, true motion blurring, filters and other effects.

_phil_ wrote:

i disagree.the whole lighting is better in the second ,and that motionblur looks like a real 3d motion blur ,not a full frame buffer 2d remanence (the usual trick).The real 3d motion blur would cost way more.
.
..and don't ignore the grass.Even if the models in the 2 scenes are the same ,the rendering is not the same method.

I gotta agree with phil on this.

 

[Acert93]

I think this is a case of someone trying too hard to find something wrong about teh entire thing. I mean really what's the point? It's a bloddy commercial.

What is trying too hard when they say, "Hey, this is Next Gen Madden" when in fact it is not? Since when have concept art = a next gen product? (I don't care what other publishers do... when EA is telling Joe Public this is the next Madden and shows game-like footage that is infact not game footage it is a waste of time).

Basically we watched a video that has nothing to do with the game at all.

Oh well, EA has been drumming up how great the PS3 version is going to be--ironically no mention of the Xenon version. Could very well be X2 wont get Madden 2006 since the next gen Madden is not ready (thus the reason no real footage was shown).

 

[jvd]

All nice and good and stuff... but as for the "EA said it was FMV" the entire point is lost on you: EA did not present it to the masses as FMV...

Obviously not as ea presented it to the sites as what neg gen games can look like but they also said they would most likely look better .

The point is lost on you because i never see a ps2 game comercial or an xbox game comercial that is 90% fmv say in bold letters across the screen this is fmv and does not refelect actually game play .

That is my point . This is the same thing thats been going on since the playstation days

Obviously you were unable to follow the line of reasoning. This has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the usage of FMV in commercials (Note: did you not see my comment about two wrongs do not equal a right? Your comment is neither here nor there). Next Gen Madden commecial was presented to the masses (re: even people here, who are not the masses, have not read the IGN/Gamespot scoops that this is not real) as some form of game footage, and (b) whether next gen Madden looks better is an unknown factor--if you are waiting on the baited words of a PR rep from EA then good luck.

No its you who doesn't understand

People see a new comercial for whatever and its chock full of fmv , they go and buy it and the game looks nothing like the fmv , how is that diffrent then next gen madden ? They see something and then they buy the game and it doesn't look the same . How is that any diffrent ? ITs just that you got a hard on for this to be wrong and your excusing everyone else that has been doing this for the last 10 years .

And, "to follow your reasoning" (to take a page out of your book), when they show "mock up" FMV footage at E3 and present it as "Next Gen MGS" and "Next Gen GTA4" and promise "The real thing will look better" we should take it at face value. What kind of reasoning is that jvd!

Same reasoning that your using now to say its okay to watch fmv comercials of final fantasy and then buy a game that looks nothing like that but hey its okay cuase at least that fmv is in the game .


Well my reasoning is that hey those lvl of graphics will be in the game even if its just hte opening sequence or the instant reply feature .

And after all this is what you said a page ago in your post

 

[Kolgar]

People see a new comercial for whatever and its chock full of fmv , they go and buy it and the game looks nothing like the fmv , how is that diffrent then next gen madden ?

I think there's a BIG difference between a commercial showing FMV that's actually IN a game and one that tries to pass off "artist-conception" (i.e., fake) FMV as the real game, when in fact there's not one iota of real game footage to be found.

The former is not representative of actual gameplay, but it IS part of the real product. The latter is 100% boolsheet. Shame on EA for duping us consumers.

 

[Acert93]

Same reasoning that your using now to say its okay to watch fmv comercials of final fantasy and then buy a game that looks nothing like that but hey its okay cuase at least that fmv is in the game .

I never said that, now did I?

 

[MechanizedDeath]

You are making a mountain out of a molehill. If the final product exceeds this video what does it matter anyway? Wait for the final product, then open fire all you want. Right now, this pecking is totally worthless. PEACE.

 

[PC-Engine]

You are making a mountain out of a molehill. If the final product exceeds this video what does it matter anyway? Wait for the final product, then open fire all you want. Right now, this pecking is totally worthless. PEACE.

Ditto...hear that nAo?

it's more accurate in case of z-layering of moving objects.in fact the 2nd screen looks like it also features sub-frame interpolated motion blur.

Edit :
BTW such article add conviction to me as a game artist ,that more and more nextgen will be about mastering that "2D moving space" ,the screen.The clever use of 2d processing.
http://journalofvision.org/3/9/782/

You mean like DOF blurring?

 

[Qroach]

Oh well, EA has been drumming up how great the PS3 version is going to be--ironically

Now you're trying too hard as well. When has EA been "drumming up how great the PS3 is publically"? Got a link?

no mention of the Xenon version.Could very well be X2 wont get Madden 2006 since the next gen Madden is not ready .

Wouldn't you like that? I think you'll be dissapointed. The footage they showed was old & created a long time ago. It was only shown now. Ya know if you look closely at teh footage the menus have a green "A" button in there. There's only one console that has buttons that look like that.

(thus the reason no real footage was shown)

yeah EA usually likes to show commercialized footage of unfinished games oustide of industry events, just so people like yourself can sit there trying to find faults. Yeah that's always a good idea.

 

[Farid]

I'm pleased that my "utterly exaggerated" example stating that a Xbox could probably produce, minus the FSAA, the "Close-up face scene", has been proven true by EA.

Yeah, true, you read correctly. I mean, the Xbox can sure produce FMVs like this one (With the FSAA!!)...

 

[Fafalada]

Can you describe what real 3D motion blur is?

Accumulation of multiple image samples, offset in different points in time, aka temporal anti-aliasing.
Put it simply - for it to work, you have to render(and animate) your scene at several times higher framerate then what you are displaying.

 

[PC-Engine]

Can you describe what real 3D motion blur is?

Accumulation of multiple image samples, offset in different points in time, aka temporal anti-aliasing.
Put it simply - for it to work, you have to render(and animate) your scene at several times higher framerate then what you are displaying.

Cool thanks.

 

[Acert93]

Oh well, EA has been drumming up how great the PS3 version is going to be--ironically

Now you're trying too hard as well. When has EA been "drumming up how great the PS3 is publically"? Got a link?

http://psp.ign.com/articles/583/583952p1.html

January 31, 2005 - Seeking young talent for upcoming ventures in videogame development, Electronic Arts last week visited the University of Florida to show off upcoming games while making several stealthy announcements on unannounced and previously unconfirmed titles.

...

Also, EA talked about the next Madden NFL Football game looking amazing on PS3

This was reported on numerous sites. They specifically mention how great the PS3 version looks which was at least 18 months away from release at the time of the statement. Of course it is me who is "trying too hard" As someone considering buying a Xbox 360, the fact EA would publically mention how great the PS3 version will look is cause to raise an eyebrow. Will EA continue to be in bed with Sony? Will EA castrate their Xbox360 Live titles again? I believe the R500 will compete nicely with the PS3 GPU, but the fact EA would mention how great a *specific* version looks, 18mo out, should give one a moment to pause. They could have said "next gen". Instead they specifically cited the PS3. Also, I guess when all the developers say, "We are going to show next gen footage" and in small print say, "Well, it actually is not next gen footage... it is an artists rendition, and it may or may not look similar" we should just nod our heads and say "yep, next gen footage". The issue never was if others show FMV (or if that is right or wrong). The issue was EA telling the press (and website visitors) they would be showing footage of the next gen Madden, and for those who showed up to their press showing they sheepishly disclosed it was not next gen footage at all, just artist concept art. i.e. Great publicity, but no actual "next gen" substance.