Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [2018]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Tkumpathenurpahl, Jan 19, 2018.

Tags:
  1. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,361
    Likes Received:
    109
    What about 120hz. 26TF is only enough is you stay at 30/60. 60 should be the basement going forward, IMHO.
     
  2. phoenix_chipset

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Messages:
    546
    Likes Received:
    246
    The only thing more wasteful than native 4k would be 120fps. I know there's an improvement from 60fps but it's far less than 30 to 60.

    I could see it happen by gen 10. With Ms supporting VRR on X maaaaybe devs will have the option though? For visually simple competitive games like fortnite.
     
    Silenti and Xbat like this.
  3. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,361
    Likes Received:
    109
    Variable refresh is for uneaven framerates, not so much as a replacement for high refresh. That's why it's most useful in the 40 fps area. VRR is essentially the CBR of refresh rates. For me, the difference between 60 and 100+ is big as 1080p and 4k. It FEELS so much better, and it's honestly the real big difference between current PC and console experiences right now IMHO.
     
    McHuj likes this.
  4. beyondtest

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    5
    Wouldn't the game be different because the development base is leveraged?

    A true next gen exclusive might possibly have more substantial visual and mechanical upgrades than an upscaled game built for the original PS4.

    Less leaps are probably expected with how tech's slowing down anyway but I guess this statement goes more for longer generations.
     
  5. phoenix_chipset

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Messages:
    546
    Likes Received:
    246
    I mean maybe MS will support 120fps as an option with scorpio. Since they went through the trouble for VRR with X. It would be rarely utilized i'm sure but hey.
    The problem with PC and it's brute forcing of framerate is that a lot of games have elements that are locked to 30, or 60fps so even if you can run a console game at 120fps, or a 60fps it might cause visual inconsistency if not flat out break elements of the game. See Vanquish before patch for example. In general these issues are not as prevalent this gen but they're still there.

    Even console remasters with higher framerate can look wonky. The Uncharted games on ps3 have a lot of kinda crude animation blends and snapping, Which looked .ok. on ps3 but on ps4 they look extremely wonky and overly fast at 60fps. Actually shadow of tomb raider has this issue, but UC4 has really good blends.

    Or gears 4 on 1X, has elements loked at 30fps even in high framerate mode. 120fps will happen eventually en masse but not until graphics improvement grinds to a crawl.
     
    #2865 phoenix_chipset, Oct 11, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  6. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,005
    Likes Received:
    4,433
    Let’s also never forget the adoption of such things on mainstream TVs.

    120Hz is a long, long way away and we have much more pressing things to solve and worry about before even thinking about that.

    90% of console games today are running at 30fps. Let’s worry about a 60fps base first, prettier pixels, and then we go from there. Yes I made that number up but that’s what it feels like, honestly.

    Hence why I’m in agreement with those who think that 8-10Tf ain’t that great.
     
    phoenix_chipset likes this.
  7. phoenix_chipset

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Messages:
    546
    Likes Received:
    246
    Lol I think more than 10%of games are 60fps but we don't have a lot for sure. Most recently I can't believe Valkyria chronicles 4 is 30fps given the remaster is 60 and they share an engine.

    And definitely, TVs with native 120hz panels are safely in the 1000 dollars plus range right now.
     
  8. Xbat

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    198
    Location:
    A farm in the middle of nowhere
    This is obviously your opinion and I'm not saying it's wrong but for me as long as you getting locked 60 fps resolution is much more important for me especially when dealing with screens 50 inches and up.

    Funnily enough I notice the higher refresh rate in windows while moving tabs around or browsing the web more than in games.

    Regarding the whole this machine was 8x more powerful than the previous machine and the next gen won't be and all that I find perplexing. Surely the bigger the number the less important it becomes e.g. someone who has $8 compared to someone who has $1 is 8x richer but someone who has 4 billion dollars compared to 1 billion is only 4x richer but we would rather be the guy with 4 billion dollars than the guy with $8.

    After reading that I have confused myselfo_O
     
  9. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,005
    Likes Received:
    4,433
    That’s what happens when analogies make zero sense
     
    milk and Xbat like this.
  10. Xbat

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    198
    Location:
    A farm in the middle of nowhere
    Surely though you can do more with 10 TFlops than you could of done with 1TFlop? Even though that 1 TFlop was a bigger jump.
     
  11. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,005
    Likes Received:
    4,433
    I don’t think anyone is denying that, it’s pretty obvious.
     
  12. Xbat

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    198
    Location:
    A farm in the middle of nowhere
    Then what's the problem about it only being 6x more powerful instead of 10x.

    Also the comparing it to the Xbox X is also disingenuous because the Xbox X is hamstrung by the Xbox One.
     
  13. phoenix_chipset

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Messages:
    546
    Likes Received:
    246
    Personally I think we should use ps4 pro as a point of comparison for what next gen will be. Because its exclusives have the best base graphics excluding resolution, and we pretty much know next gen won't have lower res games than pro enhanced titles.

    Given that, it's going to take 12.6 tf to even see a 3x jump for next gen, so I think any resolution upgrades we see will be minimal to nothing compared to pro. I don't doubt that games will even be lower res than X1X games once that leap in power over ps4 pro is used for framerate and graphics. 3 times, man that is pretty lame for a next gen leap and this is like best case scenario we're talking here. Not a problem as far as will the games look great or not, but it's almost no jump at all compared to previous gens.

    Obvious solution is to, crazy idea not launch new machines anytime soon but I guess that ship has sailed.
     
  14. phoenix_chipset

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Messages:
    546
    Likes Received:
    246
    Really I think we should talk more about the cpu leap, though it's harder to guess since they can go so many routes. 6 cores 12 threads (less likely but maybe), 8 cores no smt or 8 cores 16 threads with lower clocks. Can we reasonably expect a 4x increase here over pro and X?
     
  15. London-boy

    London-boy Shifty's daddy
    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2002
    Messages:
    21,005
    Likes Received:
    4,433
    It’s my opinion!!! Sheesh!
     
    BRiT likes this.
  16. Xbat

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    198
    Location:
    A farm in the middle of nowhere
    I'm not sure about that, the Pro is also hamstrung by base PS4. Not as much as Xbox X but still and the CPUs are going to be a big step up and hopefully architectural improvements in the GPU.
     
  17. Tkumpathenurpahl

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    492
    I think it's quite a useful metric, seeing as Sony's first party efforts have done quite a good job of providing a stellar 4K image, with a fairly paltry 4.2TF.

    With that in mind, 3 times the GPU grunt, along with at least double the quantity and bandwidth of memory, and a vastly superior CPU seems like a pretty satisfying generational leap IMO.

    But the fact that Google and Microsoft are both getting aboard the PSNow train provides further reason to launch with two tiers IMO. Can't expand on that right now though - my dog's itching for a walk.
     
    London-boy likes this.
  18. anexanhume

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    202
    I think 2x is the lower bound. Likely near 1.5x base clock, another 1.5x in IPC (Zen 1 is 1.4x Jaguar). That’s single threaded. If they can get more than 7 threads working at a time, the number just goes up from there. I’m also expecting them to widen their vector units to 256, which should crush Jaguar in those workloads.

    The one concern I have is with regards to Zen’s sensisitivity to RAM timings. A big latency GDDR6 solution may not play nice. Is a big 32MB L3 the answer?
     
  19. itsmydamnation

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    1,217
    Likes Received:
    315
    Location:
    Australia
    It's all relative, Zens latency issues are far better then dual module jaguar. Also 40% more IPC is a low bound especially for games that are very heavy Simd
     
  20. shiznit

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    Oblast of Columbia
    How are you getting a 1.4x IPC improvement? From what I can find it's at least 2.5x.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...