Next Gen Panel Discussion
- Thread starter scooby_dooby
- Start date
Master-Mold
Newcomer
Magnum PI said:
I would hardly call 2 million+ Live members "hype".
Nintendo did pull a 180 on the topic of online play because they know it is now part of console gaming. They were just slow, as usual.
mckmas8808
Legend
Master-Mold said:
Exactly. And anybody else that thinks Live or any type of online gaming is hype is just lying to themselves. Just read what devs have said about MS online possibilities.
Ooh-videogames
Regular
I have yet to experience the Xbox360, would it be acceptable for me to speak of it negatively?
I wonder what some of you thought, when Nintendo introduced the N64 controller and the analog thumbstick?
I wonder what some of you thought, when Nintendo introduced the N64 controller and the analog thumbstick?
mckmas8808
Legend
Ooh-videogames said:
I thought it was interesting, cool, and productive.
expletive said:
And it would have happened without Nintendo at pretty much the same time. Sega had the Saturn's 3D controller in development months before the N64 pad was made public and released it within about a week of N64. It was the basic template for the DC, GC and Xbox pads.
Master-Mold
Newcomer
function said:
100% correct. It would have have released a few months sooner than the N64 if not for the delays that Nights had.(it was a pack in peripheral)
Its just another example of an innovation that Nintendo supporters give e-credit for.
I have always said Sega was much more innovative that Nintendo, but people refuse to look at facts and would rather keep their head in the clouds.
Master-Mold said:
Thanks for making my point..
2 million+ live members, 100 million+ console gamers
That's a immense fraction of 2 %
This isn't even ten percent of xbox owners..
An overhyped epiphenomen.
The facts speak by itself, console gamers weren't that interested.
I would rather they that they had nothing to offer online-wise, so the best they had to do was to downplay it while working on it..
I guess they have something serious planned.
Master-Mold
Newcomer
Magnum PI said:
Whoa whoa whoa.
If you are going to use the full installed console base (which is wrong in itself) you cant just reference Live users. Xbox hasnt sold anywhere near 100 million.
You would need to use PS2 & Xbox Live online gamers in relation to their respective sales. I could be wrong but hasnt the Xbox sold around 20 million? If so the Live attach rate is 10%+. Granted I dont follow figures closely, but also the Live community has exceeded 2 million by now.
10%+ is damn good for the first serious attempt at a console online service. Nintendo is just trying to mask a mistake with fancy talk about online play. Sounds alot like their old arguement on optical storage for games, then suddenly their next console uses optical storage.
Nintendo nevers wants to appear wrong and still believes they somehow control gaming."You gamers arent ready for anything until we say you are"
mckmas8808
Legend
Master-Mold said:
And that's the one thing that kills me about Nintendo. Something means nothing until they do it.
mckmas8808 said:
Agreed. How can anyone deny the emergence of online gaming as 'standard' now is crazy given the explosion of just MMORPGs globally. Jeez, people are literlly playing them to DEATH in Asia.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6448213/did/8888579/
Master-Mold said:
Yes you are correct.
If i want to take into account every console I have to add the number of online gamers on PS2 and gamecube to the number of xbox live players..
Let's be crazy and let's say there are 3.5 million PS2 online, 3 xbox lives, 0.5 million gamecube... Among more than 100 million console players..
That would make what ? 7 millions online players ? That make about 7 % of console players who use online services.
Based on this unrealitsically optimist ertimation you could say that 93 % of playesrs don't use online services.
How could you pretend that console gamers want online when only 7% do use online service ? That would be like saying all americans are nazis because 7% do express some sympathies for nazis ideas.. (random example)
No, the ratio of online players vs the total of console players.
Where your reasoning fail is that the sample is not representative, among these players some of them certainly did buy the xbox for the online features.
You can be sure that the fraction of online-oriented gamers on xbox is superior that the fraction of online-oriented gamers all consoles confounded.
It's like saying the fact that 10% of gamecube players bought mario something equates that mario something enjoy a damn good success..
What was their argument on optical storage for games ?
what do you think you are proving ? you are only reassessing you opinion...
All I see is that some of us forget that the hardcore gamers community isn't representative of console gamers.
Master-Mold
Newcomer
You cannot even fairly add in Gamecube owners to the pool of possible online gamers. How many GC games have online play, 1-3? I can think of Phantasy Star and........well I cant think of anything else. Not to mention you really had to go out of your way to find those broadband adapters.
As for Nintendo's previous view on optical strorage, I think this little pasage about says it all:
There are a lot of factors that ultimately contributed to Nintendo's backing-out of its deals for a CD-based system. One was obviously that Nintendo was comfortable with the profitable cartridge system it had running. Other issues were that of extended loading times, ease of pirating, and a read-only gameplay medium.
The Nintendo Power magazine said, "The next time when someone tells you that CD-ROM is the wave of the future, tell them that the future doesn't belong to the snails."
As for Nintendo's previous view on optical strorage, I think this little pasage about says it all:
There are a lot of factors that ultimately contributed to Nintendo's backing-out of its deals for a CD-based system. One was obviously that Nintendo was comfortable with the profitable cartridge system it had running. Other issues were that of extended loading times, ease of pirating, and a read-only gameplay medium.
The Nintendo Power magazine said, "The next time when someone tells you that CD-ROM is the wave of the future, tell them that the future doesn't belong to the snails."
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mckmas8808
Legend
Master-Mold said:
My point exactly.
I have to take account the GC owners into the equation, why wouldn't they count like the others ? We should take the sample that suits you the best ?Master-Mold said:
Yes the gamecube is very poor online-wise, so we can say that someone who choses a gamecube over the other consoles is not interested in online gaming..
I could please you and remove GC from the equation, but it would not change the big picture..You are nitpicking, aren't you ?
This can only be an approximation as i do not take into account the fact that someone can own several consoles, bu at least i try to be honest.
Well it says a lot but i doesn't answers my question.
You talked about "their old arguement on optical storage for games".
Which is ?
And please be fair with your source by naming it:
http://www.n-sider.com/articleview.php?articleid=279
The article draws an interesting picture of the relationship b/w nintendo and the CD, things are far more subtle than the way you present it with your selective quoting.
Master-Mold
Newcomer
Nintendos former stance on CD Rom or Optical storage was that it was not a good solution for the future of gaming. I remember various quotes and statements around that time period saying it was slow, had terrible load times, and even far fetched things like "optical data storage is untested" as if CDs were going to explode or were fragile. In reality it was all spin to save face and hide the fact they liked the profits they were making charging third parties $8-15 per cartridge for their systems and were scared to death of piracy.
All this was in effort to appear "right" much in the same way they have done with online gaming.Now as before they are adopting the tech they once bashed, but are late to the party as usual. It is as if they are saying "Now its okay to play games online because we (Nintendo) are doing it"
The truth is Nintendo was wrong about online gaming much in the same way they were about CD-Roms and are now going to do it. Nintendo has lately been in the business of telling gamers what you should want and not listening to what gamers actually want unless it fits thier business model and if it doesn't then its wrong.
All this was in effort to appear "right" much in the same way they have done with online gaming.Now as before they are adopting the tech they once bashed, but are late to the party as usual. It is as if they are saying "Now its okay to play games online because we (Nintendo) are doing it"
The truth is Nintendo was wrong about online gaming much in the same way they were about CD-Roms and are now going to do it. Nintendo has lately been in the business of telling gamers what you should want and not listening to what gamers actually want unless it fits thier business model and if it doesn't then its wrong.
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mckmas8808
Legend
Master-Mold said:
And you know what might be next? Nintendo being wrong about HD gaming. You watch.
Master-Mold said:
Well, you gotta admit that when they finally went for optical storage, they put a lot of effort into making sure the thing loaded fast and was a pain in the butt to pirate. I'd still be PC-only if it weren't for seeing how quick Monkeyball loaded on my buddies' Cubes. I never even considered a console before then.
They also didn't say HD will never, ever be important for all time and eternity. They just said it isn't all it's cracked up to be now. They may turn out to be right. If HD doesn't catch on en masse until the tail of next gen (like online did this gen), they may be glad they decided not to spend that extra money. If 60% of gamers have an HD set by 2007, they'll be eating their words.
And every company always pretends they're always right and always meant to do exactly as they're doing now. Seriously, you should try following the automotive industry...the parallels to the video game industry are weird.
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