News & Rumours: Playstation 4/ Orbis *spin*

[patsu]

There are games that work extremely well with speech:
Speech recognition in SingStar and dancing games is a natural fit.
Speech recognition in EyePet, Scribblenaut, "fire-n-forget" squadron control is probably okay... although other input mechanisms may be fun also.

The developers should make the call.

 

[MrFox]

Hmmm....I guess my opinion is too much shaped by the type of games I play, I completely ignored the casual and performance-based games.

With a lot of development effort, maybe a big MMO could put it to good use, too.

 

[dagamer]

Hmmm....I guess my opinion is too much shaped by the type of games I play, I completely ignored the casual and performance-based games.

With a lot of development effort, maybe a big MMO could put it to good use, too.

Problem is that developers won't put it to real good use it if a) it's not available to everyone and b) it's not available at the beginning of a console generation when new IP is far more well received and starts franchises.

You have to design the game with the assumption that X peripheral is there for it to be meaningful. Best example is the sword fighting w/ Wiimote and The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess vs requiring the WiiMotion Plus in The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. The former felt tacked on, the latter (to me) proves that motion controls don't have to be gimmicks (and buttons aren't really that immersive). But that game was released 5 YEARS into the Wii's life.

 

[MrFox]

Yeah, people keep thinking "included in box" means "OMG I AM FORCED TO USE THIS THING?!?! WHY?!?!"

Options people. You have them.

You have to design the game with the assumption that X peripheral is there for it to be meaningful. Best example is the sword fighting w/ Wiimote and The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess vs requiring the WiiMotion Plus in The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. The former felt tacked on, the latter (to me) proves that motion controls don't have to be gimmicks (and buttons aren't really that immersive). But that game was released 5 YEARS into the Wii's life.

So do you think it's going to be optional or not?

With Zelda, and many other nintendo games which used to be played with normal controllers, yes, I am now forced to use this thing. Isn't it a reasonable worry that MS and Sony might try that too? Where are my options you speak of?

 

[dagamer]

So do you think it's going to be optional or not?

With Zelda, and many other nintendo games which used to be played with normal controllers, yes, I am now forced to use this thing. Isn't it a reasonable worry that MS and Sony might try that too? Where are my options you speak of?

It'll be optional for developers to use it, but for games which it's used, I expect it to be an integral part of the game. But it'll be on a game-by-game basis, not at the platform level.

 

[patsu]

Well. if it's the developer's call, then yes sometimes they may force the experience on us. e.g., Demon's Souls has a unique MP experience that is forced on everyone (e.g., World Tendency). You can't really opt out of it. If they do it right, then it may be interesting -- even though some may not like it.

I don't think speech recognition is bad for games if it's well thought out. Not every game needs it.

It can be handy for some general navigation/apps (e.g., searching for movies).

 

[3dilettante]

Demon's Souls can be played offline, and world tendency can change based solely on offline actions.
Going back online can cause an adjustment based on the server state.

 

[patsu]

That's true, but I think the user will miss out a lot without going online (No bloody messages, no white ghosts, no chance of co-op). The best balance is to stay in Soul form but stay online.

The global World Tendency is bad if you want to go pure white or pure black. Then again, when Atlus held those pure white/black event, we all had a blast.

 

[rockaman]

Demon's Souls is a great example I think of a good product in general. But also in the sense of having developers controlling the experience, and players being able to opt in or out. A complete win for those reasons and more.

I also think developers should make their own choices. When they commit to the features of the game they want to add to their game that's the best method I think. Developers will find their own opportunities if they see the benefit. That's why I like the hands off approach Sony will likely take. Hopefully Sony takes a more active role in PS Eye 2.0 than with PS Eye.

The benefit is that Move already exists so I think Sony needs to up their support from the start of the generation too.

 

[patsu]

Well, they should probably bundle some system-level apps to showcase PSEye capability. This is what they failed to do with PSEye and/or Move this gen.

e.g., I don't mind if they have a system app to match my singing to the right song in Music Unlimited. Should be a natural extension of their Gracenote service.


They most certainly should not follow the PS3 model strictly.

 

[rockaman]

That would be a great way to support Move and PS Eye actually. They really need to just do something to bring it into the living room. I have one but it just goes unused. Even just allow it as a mouse cursor or something in the browser too. Same goes for the touchpad on the DS4, put it to some obvious use right from the start, like in just basic functions like using OS and simple apps as you say.

 

[patsu]

The touchpad ? If they are interested in building up community, use it to improve the virtual keyboard. Same for speech-to-text. Text msg is a very important form of communication over the net.

PS3 user base is very international. When they organized the FIFA Home event, you could see soccer fans from all over the world in the virtual stadium. It was hilarious to see Brazilian dudes trying to pick up fake Japanese gals using broken Japanese and English.

I play late at night with the Yuropians and Asians because most Americans would be asleep. Some common language tags and emoticons would be helpful, like Dark's Soul's in-game gestures. I could guess what they wanted me to do by watching where the character points, his/her gestures (e.g., facepalm) and standard phrases like "I'm sorry".

The other thing is mouse and keyboard support. I wonder if it's fair to finally add their support at the system level.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It depends on where devs go with it, or if it's a mandated feature. What if some game you want to buy includes voice control without an alternative option? Let's say FIFA add voice commands. Now FIFA players have to use voice commands to access those features. If voice is just navigating menus with the voice and a stick+button achieves the same, no worries, but voice control could, theoretically, become a compulsory and annoying feature for some (can't see that happening myself though).

I think something more realistic is that voice commands could potentially lead to competitive advantages in multiplayer. If the voice commands allowed you to execute a command more efficiently than with a controller.

Imagine for instance that with controller you may have a complicated system of bringing up a menu, choosing a sub menu, then choosing the action you wish done. Versus a voice command that executes that action based on a simple voice command.

There's only so many buttons on a controller, beyond which you have to start using menu systems or multiple button presses, etc. Voice controls would allow you to greatly expand upon the game actions that could be included without requiring relatively complicated (IE - more than a single button press) controller actions.

At that point no one is "forced" to use voice commands, but if they wish to be competitive they will use it.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Though true, I doubt console games are going to get sophisticated enough that there'll be complex menus, certainly not in a competitive multiplayer game. Taking the most popular online games, I don't see where speech can be comfortably included instead of buttons. It's already used for communicating with teams mates, (well, reserved for that even if not used for that). Taking COD for example, what sort of voice commands will be appropriate? Maybe on respawn, choosing a loadout by name instead of scrolling through a list.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Though true, I doubt console games are going to get sophisticated enough that there'll be complex menus, certainly not in a competitive multiplayer game. Taking the most popular online games, I don't see where speech can be comfortably included instead of buttons. It's already used for communicating with teams mates, (well, reserved for that even if not used for that). Taking COD for example, what sort of voice commands will be appropriate? Maybe on respawn, choosing a loadout by name instead of scrolling through a list.

True for something like COD, a relatively fast paced FPS, more actions would slow down gameplay.

And in team based multiplayer you'd obviously need something to distinguish between voice commands and voice chat. A button dedicated to that perhaps.

Where things get interesting is in the realm of sports games. Perhaps not something like tennis or basketball. But something like American football where you can have set plays and, in real life, a quarterback can audible out of that changing the plan on the fly to another set of plays.

Or if RTS games were to ever have a hope of getting a foothold on consoles then voice commands could be key. Rather than a complex set of keyboard shortcuts ala PC, they could have complex controller commands or more structured voice commands.

If MMO's with a large variety of actions (versus ones with very limited player actions) are to, again make more than a token foothold, then voice commands could ease the transition.

Basically voice commands could allow for games to be run on consoles that are intrinsically hostile to play on a console controller due to the limited amount of buttons available and the relative slowness/difficultly of "pressing" multiple in game (on screen) buttons.

It's not so much about doing what consoles already do better. But allowing consoles to actually do things that consoles aren't good at doing due to the console controller.

Although in some cases it could make what consoles already do, better. Like for instance voice commands in ME3 allows players to do things better with voice commands than they can with controller alone. But again, you'd need some form of mechanism to distinguish between voice chat and voice commands in multiplayer games. But a simple button could be assigned to that. Push to talk or push to command depending on whether you want always on voice chat or always on voice command.

Regards,
SB

 

[patsu]

I think as long as there is an alternate scheme available for mute players and for avoiding bad speech recognition moments, it may be ok. For time critical functions, a bad recognition may cause irreparable damage. The alternate scheme or at least a Cancel button may be needed to rectify the wrong or missed command quickly.

This is especially true if the vendor provide a simple way to include voice commands anywhere in the game.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I think as long as there is an alternate scheme available for mute players and for avoiding bad speech recognition moments, it may be ok. For time critical functions, a bad recognition may cause irreparable damage. The alternate scheme or at least a Cancel button may be needed to rectify the wrong or missed command quickly.

This is especially true if the vendor provide a simple way to include voice commands anywhere in the game.

Yes, all my speculation above was in reference to an alternative console controller method. If your list of actions enabled in game matches the number of buttons on the controller, then voice commands likely add little to no benefit other than the novelty.

When your available actions start to exceed the number of buttons available (something like Mass Effect, for example, or many RPGs) then voice commands start to become more compelling and potentially more efficient and game enabling.

Regards,
SB

 

[rockaman]

How is latency with voice recognition though? I like the ideas about menu control and stuff, but how could voice be faster than buttons in a competitive games situation? We have to count the time it takes to say a phrase/word too

Maybe in StarCraft I can yell "supply depot!" But I still wonder if that's faster than clicking "b.s." for a competitive player. I'm sure we can think of other examples though.

I think it's good to have the option though, for young and casual players, especially in slower paced games like MMOs and JRPGs where the menu is the game more or less.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's not so much about doing what consoles already do better. But allowing consoles to actually do things that consoles aren't good at doing due to the console controller.

One area that voice input may be beneficial and well received, especially regards PS4, is JRPGs. All those dumb menus can be replaced with natural voice commands, and I blindly guess that the native audience would go a bundle on calling out their FF spells. In a real-time game like FFXII, calling out team-mates and actions is both intuitive and fairly natural to the immersion. A standard subject-verb-object structure would be very versatile. "X heal Y" "X attack Y" "Team defend". I think advertising such a FF game would do wonders to reinvigorate it.

 

[patsu]

How is latency with voice recognition though? I like the ideas about menu control and stuff, but how could voice be faster than buttons in a competitive games situation? We have to count the time it takes to say a phrase/word too

Maybe in StarCraft I can yell "supply depot!" But I still wonder if that's faster than clicking "b.s." for a competitive player. I'm sure we can think of other examples though.

I think it's good to have the option though, for young and casual players, especially in slower paced games like MMOs and JRPGs where the menu is the game more or less.

I am wondering if they should just bring mouse and keyboard support over to MMO and RTS. ^_^
Save all the hassle. Plus these folks may be able to cross-play against PC gamers.

One area that voice input may be beneficial and well received, especially regards PS4, is JRPGs. All those dumb menus can be replaced with natural voice commands, and I blindly guess that the native audience would go a bundle on calling out their FF spells. In a real-time game like FFXII, calling out team-mates and actions is both intuitive and fairly natural to the immersion. A standard subject-verb-object structure would be very versatile. "X heal Y" "X attack Y" "Team defend". I think advertising such a FF game would do wonders to reinvigorate it.

Perhaps. I think commands involving search (e.g., song list, dance list, etc.) will be even better.

Quick action can just be 2 clicks (target-verb). And the -- likely default -- touch pad input may be hard to beat here.