New Unreal 2007 video
- Thread starter mckmas8808
- Start date
Shark Sandwich
Regular
rounin said:What reasons? It seems to me like a lot of players want that and it would be very much appreciated if they implemented it.
At least with the original Xbox, MS didn't want people to think of it as a PC. They wanted to prove that it was a serious videogame console.
rounin said:What reasons
one big reason is it divides the userbase yet further.... those using a mouse and keyboard have a significant accuracy and speed advantage over most users of a control pad, although they will clearly have this problem if they allow vista/360 games to play together on a direct basis anyway.
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=70056
read the interview with tim sweeney and you will understand the ps3 version of the game wont support kb and mouse
read the interview with tim sweeney and you will understand the ps3 version of the game wont support kb and mouse
Not sure what you mean. Just because the game is played with a controller doesnt mean it wont support M+KB.hey69 said:
He could just mean the game is balanced and adjusted for controller, as that will be the main use for most players, but he doesnt say there wont be support for M+KB.
UT for ps2 worked the same way I beleive.
rounin said:
Should be easy enough though to allow game hosts to specify whether certain games are controller only and others keyboard/mouse only. This is what I would go for, personally.
Then again, I'm hoping and thinking that the new motion features of the new controller will make the controller just as effective or even better than key/mouse.
mckmas8808
Legend
Arwin said:
You know I've been wondering the samething. Somebody should seriously start a thread on that.
Arwin said:
More effective?
I posted this yesterday about FPS using the sensor: If you use the gyro for free look (assuming that the controllers design and gyro sensativity work well enough) and one of the analog sticks for your movement (straifing, forward/back) you have to use the fine motor skills on your thumb while using your hands to tilt, twist, dip, etc. the controller to get the freelook. Doing fine motor movements on a moving surface would be difficult to adjust to.
Just like Wii, a bit of thought needs to be put into a games design and interface. And in some case gyros just wont work well without totally abonding certain elements and starting fresh. At least for Wii they Numchucks separate the analog stick so your free look is a "pointer" and your other controls are held stably in another hand. But even then, as E3 showed, there is a lot of work left to getting a solid implimentation that is fine tuned and balanced enough that it becomes intuitive for most users.
I actually am sitting here with my PS2 controller testing this out in theory with a FPS. The quick side-to-side straifs movements (to doge) and quick turns (180s) require a bit of turning and make my thumbs push wildly. So tone it down you argue? Then the problem would be that it would be extremely sensative and less accurate.
Mice have neither of these problems.
its a slippery slope for ms,Bad_Boy said:
stick a keyboard/mouse in, then ppl will want to surf the net, email etc (ie do things u normally do on a computer), a large % of ppl only use the computer for these tasks, so theyll ask. why do i need a computer? bang, less ppl with windows == less revenue for ms.
this is ms's biggest worry about the ps3, since sony can throw everything into it, web browser /linux etc since theyre not taking sales away from themselves.
scooby_dooby
Legend
zed said:
MS says NO, 'we have to maintain security' problem solved.
Personally I think mouse/kb is overrated, for sniping it's alot better than a gamepad, but for run and gun, i dunno if it really gives that much of an advantage over a skilled gamepad user (not that I would really call myself that) it wil be intesresting to see how these cross platform games work out in that sense. The dev from Shadowrun for example said the KB/Mouse was giving no real advantage at all contrary to their expectations (probably PR)
Last edited by a moderator:
Not sure I could agree with that. M+KB gives so much more accuracy and control than gamepad's its unfair, and not just in sniping, this is why theres such a huge debate over it.scooby_dooby said:
put two people in UT, one with a game pad and one with mouse and keyboard and most likely it would be an ugly sight. auto aim would probably be needed. and thats where the arguments come in...would ut2k7 need to separate the two players if it supported m+kb on consoles, rank them according to skill, or just disable it all together?
scooby_dooby
Legend
Bad_Boy said:
I know that's the accepted wisdom right now, but I'm wondering how much truth there is to it. Are there any studies on the matter?
Not sure about studies, but from personal experience on both platforms (pc/consoles) theres a huge difference in control, your more likely to find asisted auto aim on consoles.scooby_dooby said:
I guess you could ask someone who uses SmartJoy for PS2/xbox1, and see if there is a major difference and if their scores improved. (but even then there is a limit to the sensitivity to the mouse due to most game's default settings)
edit:
looking up a few reviews...
http://hardware.teamxbox.com/articles/xbox/954/SmartJoy-FRAG-Review/p4/
sounds pretty unfair to the controller/gamepad users if you ask me. and remember the smartjoy has glitchy software, and some sort of "deadzone" due to default game settings. imagine if the mouse and keyboard on consoles worked just as well as a pc's mouse and keyboard, you would definately have to separate the two users on consoles, or rank them according to skill.
Last edited by a moderator:
mckmas8808 said:
You mean like this one?
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?p=760419#post760419
@zed: slippery slope ... those words always raise the alarm bells with me. It usually means: 'too lazy for nuance'.
Kidding aside, the 360 dash already supports keyboard, doesn't it?As for both existing along side each other, the same already exists in driving games, where some drive with the DS2, some with Driving Force Pro, for instance (very nice wheel, I have two). Even on the DS2, you can choose between using the analog d-pad (didn't even know it was analog before I started testing this) or the analog stick. I've studied how GT responds to each input, and it employs different steering assists for each system, with the wheel giving the most realistic handling, and the d-pad giving the most assists - though you have the option to switch certain other assists on for the wheel.
Anyway, each of the three control methods are slightly different and have their pros and cons. That's the way it works, but although you always have some discussion during online competitions, its not a big deal.
In the meantime, a lot of people (the DF Pro has been extremely successful, hence Logitech now made the new clutch and full gearbox version, perhaps also works with GT5 later on?
) have been willing to invest some serious money to be able to play with the wheel, simply because its just so much fun. And an USB mouse and keyboard, well, they're not nearly as expensive. So if it is better, why not support it? Therefore, like I said before, include the option to bar certain controller types from user created online matches. That way if this ever does become an issue, you can deal with it properly. But if it doesn't become an issue, then you also don't prevent people from enjoying a game the way they like to play it, for instance because they are used to it on PC.
Heck, I could see elite teams flying a helicopter with the dual analog sticks, their ground troops using keyboard and mouse, and their gunner using the ps3 controller held up (that just makes so much sense, I hope a game that uses especially the latter option comes out soon).
But I think the new controller will be great - let's discuss that in the thread I linked to above though.
huh?
it is a big advantage + is something im wrestling with in my game, the issuse is
mouse has far more resolution than a joystick
eg to move cursor from left of screen to right
with a mouse u can do it in a blink of an eye but a joystick the only way posible is to ramp up senstivity so uch that, its impossible to make minute adjustements for detail work
also try to accurately write your name onscreen with
A/ joystick
B/ mouse (wins every time with everyone)
im still trying to find a solution to this issue for my game, as being an oldschool game guy. i prefer joysticks but at the moment playing with a mouse is so much of an advantage. i have tried autoaim but discarded it cause its 100% bollux eg it dumbs down the game.
eg take 2 equal players with robotron/geometry wars(which ive been playing recently)
give one person a mouse + another a joystick(controller) and the mouse will win the same with fps's.
some genre's though joysticks are better than mice eg platformmers
