Negative Fan-boy-ism Article

[TheChefO]

This type of blog seems very odd that it came from Sony themselves. I certainly hope someone there isn't trying to say all the negativity surrounding the PS3 is just a matter of ******ism, and instead actual things that people either don't like about the system or how sony is handling things (well I'm sure some of it is ******ism) but not to the extent some people are alluding to.

Spot on. The negativity surrounding ps3 is rooted in many things.

A) The underdog syndrome (some people don't like the top dog)
B) Sony has scrapped the ps2 formula
C) Sony has been the biggest antifanb0y of the bunch (ironic, given the origin of the article)

Sony did so many things right in the past and they had their share of mistakes as well. Thing is their mistakes were often overshadowed by their strengths. But there comes a breaking point if one screws up too much they not only loose fence sitters, they start turning their old fans against them.

They still have hardcore faithful on their side but they have certainly dwindled this fanbase.

I also find humor in the timing of an article like this.

 

[NERO]

Wow this is profound. "Negative" fanyboyism? I bet we're also going to have a conversation about how shit stinks.

BTW. I loves Nintendo and hate the rest of the consoles.

 

[StefanS]

Ok, here's my personal take on it:

I'll start off by echoing the feelings of the others. There's no negative fan-boyism or positive fan-boyism, for that matter. A Fanboi is inherently different from a fan. He lacks a very crucial component: the maturity to critically assess his preferences. His choice becomes a sacrosanct dogma, that can't be challenged.


Now in response to the OP / Blog-post:

Isolating fan-cultures is probably the worst idea ever. Basically you're turning a blind eye to the underlying issues. Instead of confronting the out-of-reality ideas you're basically supporting them; instead of trying to bring people together - which is the purpose of every discussion, in my opinion - you separating them in their individual comfort spaces; in short instead of dialogue you'll only encourage monologue. That's why we don't have individual forums here. Different people with different ideas and preferences create more interesting topics.
Moreover, I can only assure everyone that we don't encourage trolling, etc. in order to get more ad revenue - we leave that to other sites. In fact we don't encourage it at all, for your own safety


Lastly, I'd like to address some points made in this thread here:

We're certainly very much aware of the bias of posters and we do pay close attention to "hidden" agenda, etc. But we don't hand out warnings or infractions on a whim. It's important to leave for discussion: Not every post is properly completely devoid of ambiguity and often there're multiple interpretations, varying with the preferences of the reader. Not every poster stays the same (!) and doesn't change his opinions / posting habits.

I won't pass judgment on a matter if I don't feel that I have a clear and complete picture and I certainly won't censor opinions. So what I am trying to say is we're giving everyone space to explain his postings. "In dubio pro reo" so to say.

 

[Arwin]

*is a Hupf ... StefanS fanb@i.*

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Fan culture is okay if it stays within reason. I basically compare it to sports, where many people have favourit teams etc. and in my opinion in both of these examples It's basically okay to support one side, even though it naturally means that favoring always includes little bias or the very least unlogical thinking. I think that as the fan level rises the "sport" becomes less important and the machine/fan culture starts to become more and more important, of course when this goes far enough, we get people claiming to work for the company and telling us inside secrets/hyping up the machine in the process...

I personally feel that I will get significantly more satisfaction by buying both X360 and PS3 and getting 10 best games for each platform, in contrast of getting 20 best gmaes for just one platform. Sure it will be more expensive, but divided by about 5-6 years the premium is definately worth it. I'm a bit short on cash right now as I'm studying, but sooner or later I will dish out the cash for PS3, because let's face it, I cannot let games like God of War 3, Tekken 6 or FF13 to slip through my fingers, likewise my gaming experience would fall short if I didn't get to experience e.g. Halo3, Mass Effect or Ninja Gaiden 2. All I can say is that Thank god I don't have to purchase just one console or feel that just one is enough. Even if the money situation is bad there are many (legal) ways to make it happen.

The saying grass is always greener on the other side certainly doesn't mix well with typical fan person, but imo it's quite rewarding to experience all sorts of grass oops
Wii is a little bit different beast, but I will definately experience it too, as I'm sure the great success especially in Japan will spun funny, original and interesting titles. I just hope the region coding won't become a problem for it...

 

[Carl B]

I'm going to offer a sort of counterpoint to Stefan's post, as well as some of the others made here. I agree that fanb0yism is fanb0yism, but I *do* differentiate between positive and negative. Not that positive equals good; it doesn't. But its effects play out differently.

When a fan-post is directed towards extolling the 'positives' of a given console, then I feel the onus for 'action' (or not) is on the potential respondents, who in all truth would really only feel moved to post due to feeling a sort of anger at the ignorance they are witnessing. I can understand and relate to that. But there's no more actionable cause to doing so than there is to 'correcting' someone you hear talking on the street supporting a foreign policy concept that you might be against. Ultimately, where can such action be expected to go? So, when one knows better than the poster, the sense of feeling annoyed - I totally understand... but its a post and perspective whose detrimental influence is at least passive.

Not so the case when the 'evangelizing' done on a systems behalf is done through casting other systems in a negative light. The former is unwillful aggravation, the later willful - and I think that makes all the difference. Because I can understand someone seeing fanb0yism and being disgusted whatever form it takes, but IMO as long as said person is willing to respect the decision of others to choose differently than themselves, that is a very significant difference in terms of human 'worth,' to put it bluntly.

Anyway... thankfully this is all sort of an existental discussion for this forum since it's not as bad here (though it does creep up.)

As for the article itself, I think sadly the 'battles' that break out when there's open negativity does lend itself into a hit-generating model for many a site and forum, but I don't think cloistered self-supporting forums are the answer either. Not to say that there's anyting inherently wrong with it from an intent standpoint, but obviously just as a society period interaction and understading of 'other' positions should be encouraged; such thinking filters down through all life choices afterall.

 

[Inane_Dork]

The effects of positive and negative fan-boyism are different, but considering they come from the same group of people, isn't it a little hair-splitting to make much of a difference between them? I guess I don't consider a person to be a fanboi if they refrain from making negative remarks towards other products.

Personally, I get about as addled listening to positive delusion as negative delusion. Maybe it's different for everyone else. I guess I judge by the root instead of the specific outworking.

 

[Carl B]

The effects of positive and negative fan-boyism are different, but considering they come from the same group of people, isn't it a little hair-splitting to make much of a difference between them? I guess I don't consider a person to be a fanboi if they refrain from making negative remarks towards other products.

I agree that it's sort of rare to find the one without the other, but... well, we're speaking in the hypothetical of course.

Personally, I get about as addled listening to positive delusion as negative delusion. Maybe it's different for everyone else. I guess I judge by the root instead of the specific outworking.

Me too. Still, let's say someone subscribes to a religious belief that you are opposed to (for whatever reason and for purposes of the example alone), and they are exceedingly passionate about it; it would be reasonable to say that you would likely be equal parts disgusted and annoyed if forced to hear it, be it in a restaurant or elsewhere. But still, the individual that would subscribe to those same beliefs, and on top of it seek to actvely berate you for your own... that's a different level, at least IMO. I grant that the root ignorance stems from the same place, but its still a matter of choice how individuals choose to act on their delusions, and they can choose to be civil or not in that regard.

It's simply the sad state of things that product 'worship' has become a sort of feaux dogma for people to subscribe to and identify with. It's not just consoles sadly, but cars, cell phones, and everything else. My god, every couple of years when I need a new cellphone and I go to howardforums to check out the scene, you would not believe what some people have to say about Motorola vs Samsung, etc etc... Schools need to start teaching critical thinking skills, and ASAP.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Schools need to start teaching critical thinking skills, and ASAP.

AMEN! I have to suffer from the lack of those skills on people around me every single day...
People definately should chew a bit more before they swallow and accept the information at a face value.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I agree that fanb0yism is fanb0yism...

Seeing everyone using different spellings on fanb0y, I can't but help wonder if the banning of the proper word should be lifted. It's there to stop people using that word in offensive ways - but if someone does, they can be reprimanded or banned. Can't we now just lift the ban on the spelling so people can discuss fanbois without the silly jumping-through-hoops which doesn't stop the word being used - only it's correct spelling - and instead use moderation to stop people using the term fan-boy in a derogative way?

 

[mrcorbo]

The key common characteristic of any kind of ****** is the lack of objectivity. Whether the lack of objectivity causes you to always post negatively about the opposite side or always post positively about your side, it is still counterproductive to having a true dialogue. Both are equally bad.

Case in point, the "positive" ****** is more apt to attack even a truly objective poster for their opinion if they post negatively about their side. They are unable to see the difference in a truly negative post and a well-thought-out and fair one if it reflects negatively on their side. So rather than an equally fair and well-thought-out rebuttal we are likely to get a knee-jerk, defensive, response and a series of back-and-forth flames.

No, there is no such thing as a less harmful ******.

 

[Carl B]

So rather than an equally fair and well-thought-out rebuttal we are likely to get a knee-jerk, defensive, response and a series of back-and-forth flames.

Back and forth flames can only occur between two enabling parties, so IMO the responder is not more innocent than the original poster in this situation. If the fanb0y does respond with knee-jerk flaming, the objective poster should still remain civil.

Whether the lack of objectivity causes you to always post negatively about the opposite side or always post positively about your side, it is still counterproductive to having a true dialogue. Both are equally bad.

Ultimately what concerns me is intent; if the intent was to instigate, then the individual should be dealt with more harshly. If there was no intent initially however, I would lean towards explanation over 'justice.'

In terms of objectivity, it's just plain difficult to make a 'minimum objectivity level' a set criteria for an open forum. Frankly if what we were discussing was the creation of both a maturity and technical knowledge aptitude test as precursor to forum membership... I would honestly be behind that measure. But it sets up a different philisophical question entirely, and indeed is an even more extreme form of self-selection than that envisiaged by the article. Although granted, along the lines of a loftier criteria.

 

[dobwal]

I'm going to offer a sort of counterpoint to Stefan's post, as well as some of the others made here. I agree that fanb0yism is fanb0yism, but I *do* differentiate between positive and negative. Not that positive equals good; it doesn't. But its effects play out differently.

When a fan-post is directed towards extolling the 'positives' of a given console, then I feel the onus for 'action' (or not) is on the potential respondents, who in all truth would really only feel moved to post due to feeling a sort of anger at the ignorance they are witnessing. I can understand and relate to that. But there's no more actionable cause to doing so than there is to 'correcting' someone you hear talking on the street supporting a foreign policy concept that you might be against. Ultimately, where can such action be expected to go? So, when one knows better than the poster, the sense of feeling annoyed - I totally understand... but its a post and perspective whose detrimental influence is at least passive.

Not so the case when the 'evangelizing' done on a systems behalf is done through casting other systems in a negative light. The former is unwillful aggravation, the later willful - and I think that makes all the difference. Because I can understand someone seeing fanb0yism and being disgusted whatever form it takes, but IMO as long as said person is willing to respect the decision of others to choose differently than themselves, that is a very significant difference in terms of human 'worth,' to put it bluntly.

Anyway... thankfully this is all sort of an existental discussion for this forum since it's not as bad here (though it does creep up.)

As for the article itself, I think sadly the 'battles' that break out when there's open negativity does lend itself into a hit-generating model for many a site and forum, but I don't think cloistered self-supporting forums are the answer either. Not to say that there's anyting inherently wrong with it from an intent standpoint, but obviously just as a society period interaction and understading of 'other' positions should be encouraged; such thinking filters down through all life choices afterall.

I disagree with your assessment.

"Extolling" or "evangelizing" positively or negatively about a console, in and of itself, is not a instance of "fan-boy-ism". It happens all the time here as almost all the threads in the console forum are made up of these instances.

"Fan-boy-ism" is the attribute that results in a total lack of respect and maturity in regard to counterarguments. "Fan-boy-ism" extolls one to hold his or her's beliefs as universal truths and that all contrary beliefs are the manifestion of thoughts from the minds of idiots. "Positive ******ism" in my mind is an oxymoron.

 

[Raze]

Great discussion everyone.

Personally I believe there is a huge difference between fanboys and negative fanboys.

Fanboys are essentially fans of a system, albeit obvious fans of a system. Absolutely nothing wrong with that - you can be a fan of as many systems as you want. I am a fan of all the consoles, to me, they all have their plus points.

Negative Fanboys - are fans of a system but, can't help themselves slagging off other systems!

How many times have you seen people slag off a system? Time and time again? The forum I was posting on before I was told about this site was dreadful! Every single PS3 thread had someone nit-picking or making derogative comments, and generally you'd find it was the same group of people. I don't apologise when I say that was a huge shit. I don't want to go on forums to see my choices being slagged off in that way. Intelligent debate is one thing, childish, immature, negative fanboyism is another. And I agree with another poster here who said it's extremely worrying when adults are doing it.

That said, it highlights there is a cultural problem on the internet when it comes to gaming sites. Part of that is down to the demographics of users of those sites, and why sites like this one, that are aimed more at the mature market, don't suffer as much. Although now and again some people do need reminding of that fact.

 

[Carl B]

I disagree with your assessment.

"Extolling" or "evangelizing" positively or negatively about a console, in and of itself, is not a instance of "fan-boy-ism". It happens all the time here as almost all the threads in the console forum are made up of these instances.

Suffice to say that I'm limited by the words the English language allows me to use. You're right, 'extolling' or 'evangelizing' - through a certain lense - may in fact be the basis of most threads. But I didn't mean it in the sense of, "Xenos capable of x rendering feat," or "Cell able to outperform y architecture...," but more in the sense of threads premised on subjective ideas with predisposed wieghting, such as "MS system not true next-gen," or "PS3 a failure."

So, though I chose the word 'evangelize' and that word can have many meanings based on the context, I hope I've clarified what I meant for it to mean in the context of this discussion.

"Fan-boy-ism" is the attribute that results in a total lack of respect and maturity in regard to counterarguments. "Fan-boy-ism" extolls one to hold his or her's beliefs as universal truths and that all contrary beliefs are the manifestion of thoughts from the minds of idiots. "Positive ******ism" in my mind is an oxymoron.

Fair enough. The word fanb0y has no true meaning save that which we give it as an Internet collective; your definition may be different than mine, so certainly in that sense I don't think anyone's right or wrong. For *your* definition of fanb0y, I agree with your sentiments. It's just that my own definition is a little broader.

 

[Corwin_B]

Fanboys are essentially fans of a system, albeit obvious fans of a system. Absolutely nothing wrong with that - you can be a fan of as many systems as you want. I am a fan of all the consoles, to me, they all have their plus points.

Fans and fanb0ys are really different, I think. Many people use both terms in the same way, but there is a real, tangible difference between being a fan (nothing wrong about that, and I find highly suspect people pretending to always be perfectly objective) and a fanb0y. It's a bit like the difference between taking sides ("if it's possible to favor one of the sides, I will") and being one-sided ("no matter what happens, I will favor one of the sides").

 

[dobwal]

Suffice to say that I'm limited by the words the English language allows me to use. You're right, 'extolling' or 'evangelizing' - through a certain lense - may in fact be the basis of most threads. But I didn't mean it in the sense of, "Xenos capable of x rendering feat," or "Cell able to outperform y architecture...," but more in the sense of threads premised on subjective ideas with predisposed wieghting, such as "MS system not true next-gen," or "PS3 a failure."

So, though I chose the word 'evangelize' and that word can have many meanings based on the context, I hope I've clarified what I meant for it to mean in the context of this discussion.



Fair enough. The word fanb0y has no true meaning save that which we give it as an Internet collective; your definition may be different than mine, so certainly in that sense I don't think anyone's right or wrong. For *your* definition of fanb0y, I agree with your sentiments. It's just that my own definition is a little broader.

I concur. "Fan-boy" having no formal definition means that its open to interpretation based on beliefs of the individual. I would be a "fan-boy" in relation to the term "fan-boy" to believe otherwise. But that would require me to go back and re-edit my post to include degoratory insults directed at your arguments as well as you. I don't have the time or the will.

 

[mrcorbo]

The fact that the word is actually censored on this board because of it's excessive use as an insult would seem to me to indicate that the majority of users assign a very negative connotation to the word. I know I do.

 

[Readykilowatt]

So what if someone's a fanboi? Let them be. I believe wholeheartedly in freedom of speech. Besides, it's funny watching the fanbois being forced to eat tasty, delicious and scrumptious crow.

 

[Carl B]

So what if someone's a fanboi? Let them be. I believe wholeheartedly in freedom of speech. Besides, it's funny watching the fanbois being forced to eat tasty, delicious and scrumptious crow.

Uh... no offense, but amusement is not the primary criteria here in terms of environment objectives. You may derive pleasure from fanbois eating crow, but nevertheless an environment where no one is setting anyone else up to either eat or dish out crow would be the ideal. Go to any forum where 'free speech' is the modus operendi, and see if there are not reasons you might prefer to be here instead.