my sc2 controversial impressions

[London Geezer]

I think that would be an inconsistent framerate (or was it slowdowns) that reviewers noted are existing in all three versions.

MMMMM.... slowdowns...

 

[marconelly!]

Also, that would explain why it becomes more obvious if you switch Xbox version to a higher resolution - the higher the resolution, the more chances for frame drops to occur.

 

[maskrider]

Also, that would explain why it becomes more obvious if you switch Xbox version to a higher resolution - the higher the resolution, the more chances for frame drops to occur.

Slow down is one thing (there are slow downs, but rare), but I didn't notice the said phenomenon (animation of character related parts slower than others).

 

[LogisticX]

Slowdown? For a fighting game, that is just unforgivable. Shame on Namco.

 

[RaolinDarksbane]

Why would you need VRam at all? CPU is plenty fast enough to draw the sprites on its own, if you're so afraid that uploading to VRam is so horribly slow it can't handle bandwith from two its bitsy sprites per frame.

Hmm, I thought the frames were stored on the VRAM. Weren't that the reason why SFIII or any of the VS games couldn't be properly ported on the PSX? Remember the difference of the port of SFA/Darkstalker between the PSX and the Saturn(with the RAM upgrade)? Even though the Saturn is a 2D monster compared to the PSX, it still isn't capable of those games without the extra RAM.

 

[theafu]

I normally don't reply because the way I talk about somethings wouldn't mix. While I have seen some comments about sc2 being a repackage game from 1999 I would willing debate but not in this thread. The problem you described could be better helped out by asking peeps on the sc.com boards. Some of them are big time into the game and know a lot more about the engine itself then anyone in here probably does.

 

[Sonic]

Even the difference without the RAM upgrade was quite noticeable. 2D games on the PSX couldn't really compare to 2D games on the Saturn for multiple reasons. The Saturn had a bit more memory than the PSX, so of course more frames could be stored in memory. That made a bit of a difference, but so did Saturn's whole architecture. Comparing 2d games on Saturn to PSX is just like comparing 3d games on both systems, except the roles are reversed. While the Playstation excelled at 3d games and usually blowing Saturn versions of games out of the water, it's the other way around concerning 2d games. The PSX was built from the ground up to be a 3d graphics machine and it did so at the time with great results. SEGA just wanted the Saturn to be the ultimate 2d machine and it was just that for its time. The Saturn had a whole bunch of dedicated 2d hardware that enables the system to draw more sprites and backgrounds and handle them better all at the same time.

I often remember hearing devs talk about using the PSX's 3d power to emulate 2d on the system. Sort of an example as using polgyons as part of the sprite or frame or what not. This worked best on PSX because it gave great results from what I can recall. It's funny because on earlier Saturn games 2d objects (sprites I guess) were used to simulate 3d. So again, the consoles have somewhat of a role reversal when it comes to how things are done in each dimension.

I see no reason why PS2 would be bad at 2d considering it has a huge amount of main system RAM where frames can be stored and 4MB of graphics RAM is just fine for most demanding 2d applications. On a side not, if the RAM does become a limiting factor just cel shade everything and that could be a quick and useful fix. Or do I have that all wrong?

 

[London Geezer]

Even the difference without the RAM upgrade was quite noticeable. 2D games on the PSX couldn't really compare to 2D games on the Saturn for multiple reasons. The Saturn had a bit more memory than the PSX, so of course more frames could be stored in memory. That made a bit of a difference, but so did Saturn's whole architecture. Comparing 2d games on Saturn to PSX is just like comparing 3d games on both systems, except the roles are reversed. While the Playstation excelled at 3d games and usually blowing Saturn versions of games out of the water, it's the other way around concerning 2d games. The PSX was built from the ground up to be a 3d graphics machine and it did so at the time with great results. SEGA just wanted the Saturn to be the ultimate 2d machine and it was just that for its time. The Saturn had a whole bunch of dedicated 2d hardware that enables the system to draw more sprites and backgrounds and handle them better all at the same time.

I often remember hearing devs talk about using the PSX's 3d power to emulate 2d on the system. Sort of an example as using polgyons as part of the sprite or frame or what not. This worked best on PSX because it gave great results from what I can recall. It's funny because on earlier Saturn games 2d objects (sprites I guess) were used to simulate 3d. So again, the consoles have somewhat of a role reversal when it comes to how things are done in each dimension.

I see no reason why PS2 would be bad at 2d considering it has a huge amount of main system RAM where frames can be stored and 4MB of graphics RAM is just fine for most demanding 2d applications. On a side not, if the RAM does become a limiting factor just cel shade everything and that could be a quick and useful fix. Or do I have that all wrong?

yep.. thats what i've been saying all along. like 8908 posts ago...

 

[V3]

If you did a fighting game with character sprites of actual 640x480 in size, animated at 60hz, I wouldn't be surprised if the production costs exceeded even the most expensive Disney animated movie productions.

What about rendered sprites like Killer Instinct and the like ?

They can even use NPR to get the hand drawn look.

 

[Tagrineth]

I often remember hearing devs talk about using the PSX's 3d power to emulate 2d on the system. Sort of an example as using polgyons as part of the sprite or frame or what not. This worked best on PSX because it gave great results from what I can recall. It's funny because on earlier Saturn games 2d objects (sprites I guess) were used to simulate 3d. So again, the consoles have somewhat of a role reversal when it comes to how things are done in each dimension.

Emulating 2D with 3D is done by making the sprites into textures and mapping them to simple pairs (or maybe more if you want spiffy lighting effects) of polys. No big deal. I think that's what games like Xenogears use.

Emulating 3D with 2D? You mean using quadratic primitives? Because technically that's what quadratics do, most of the time. Degenerate quads can be used as triangles, but it's very wasteful to do that.