Me and 4 other friends of mine can pretty much carry a team of 64 in any mode. It's defiantly, a camp, I-see-you-first-I-win situation most of the time. It's about knowing where people camp and setting spawn traps around them even in Conquest. It's really not my fault if their systems invoke that. There's no "oh you need to play it right to get it". The objective is to win the match, it's not my fault we can do it pretty easily with virtually no skill.
I'm also noticing a trend. You people think knowing the map and team play is a skill-set? We can easily separate the two by one simple example: You may know exactly what you need to do to gain map control but that doesn't mean you'll have the means to do it.
Certainly you have to notice you aren't even talking about individual skill. Memorization of the maps is a habit, not a skill. Map control is not a skill that can be learned or taught. The nature of a map evolves when more people simply play it but that has nothing to do with your individual skill-set. My example about movement ability in Gears of War is a perfect case in point about skill level. Now, knowing how to use the aircrafts to an efficiency that allows you to "own the sky" is a skill-set, knowing where people camp is not.
The last point I want to make. EVERY shooter these days is about team work. A well coordinated team is always going to win the day in any shooter. This is a rule, there are no exceptions. So your point about, "oh you just need to play better as a team to get it" is MOOT. The reality is: a person or persons with greater individual skill makes for a stronger team. So it doesn't matter how coordinated you think you are if your skill-set is lower than a team that's greater than your own. You still are going to get owned.
Hmmm I am pretty sure I mentioned more than "map mastery."
But I think that is the point: In the military we learn the importance of, and differences between, cover and concealment and the advantage of using tactics like flanking as well as the importance of basic fundamentals like elevation.
You also seem to confuse strategy (go for the high ground!) versus tactical engagement (I see X enemies by the fountain engaged, so I am going to loop around to their right, toss a grenade to their front to faze and then flank them) which is a *gaming skill*.
If you cannot grasp this then yes, modern warefare games are all about "see first wins" but really skilled players are 3 chess moves ahead because they aren't just trying to get a kill and hoping they see you first they are have done the things necessary to maximize their advantage before engagement.
Btw, this is no different from flying an air craft. n00bs all make the same mistakes and make the same flight patterns. e.g. When you get a tone on them they typically turn (mostly to the right!) and all you have to do is slow down, open up some distance and lead their turn and BOOM free kill. They also tend to misunderstand the advantage of elevation and assume you are going to turn around with them in "chase" fashion. And it is always fun using your own choppers and tanks as bait. These are all very basic things that begin BEFORE actual shooting. If you are waiting for guns to go live to measure skill you missed the more important part of the engagement: preparation.
As for campers, with destruction, material penetration, classes that come with RPGs and grenades, the blurring of suppression fire, tactical flash lights (!), heat sensetive scopes, open battlefields, armored vehicles, and the ability to SPAWN on teammates there is no reason for campers to cause serious issues. It isn't like MW (or worse CS) where you may have a demigod like sniper in a prime alley with 'mates covering his flanks-_BF actually gives you the ability to neutralize such tactics.
Oddly I am also part of a large PC forum and I don't hear much complaints about campers. Maybe it is time you changed up your play style. Or to be blunt, when someone struggles at a game it is usually the game's fault because it doesn't mesh with their current game skill set.
And BF3 isn't perfect, but I find your lack of specific examples and poo-poo legitimate skills PRO players use, as "skillsless" as a joke. The better arguement, from PROS, is all the Battlefields (and re: I have been playing since '42 and was part of a competitive clan) makes a poor skill/competitive game due to the balance issues and lack of consistency you see from a competition title. Map design, mod tools, and the general "big sand box" approach allows for far too many variables that aren't really conducive to pro style competitions (nor the large teams). e.g. In '42 the first thing we did in a match was send our art to a specific point and spot the sky map and tray the enemy airfield and make strategic strikes to targets/cap flags and set parameters. We knew what flags we intended to hold, which ones we would give up, etc and most matches were decided in the first couple minutes sans a huge tidal shift which was more indicative of a skill set difference. Really great players can 'sploit BF which has traditionally made the lack of super fine balance an issue. This is part of the issue with a RPS team/objective/class game this huge. In a CS or MW with random spawns and such there is a general ebb and flow that equalizes things. And you can iterate rounds quickly. Running a "best 2 of 3" in BF Conquest can take hours at times.
But for all those reason little ol' troops camping are easily -- easily I tell you -- neutralized. Heck, if you are a) playing with friends b) in a squad there is no reason for a camper to give you fit. Ok, you died. Spawn back on your SL (he better still be alive, unless somehow campers are killing your entire squad!!!!!!!) and BOOM. His position is exposed and he does. Your SQUAD moves on.
I don't get what is so hard about this.
Maybe hit up the PC forum thread here or at Ars to see if you can get some pointers on "campers." I am sure the PC gamers could give you some pointers.
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