MS's business future, particuarly in mobile space *spawn

[patsu]

I disagree on that count. I used several android based and windows mobile based voice searches and they usually came up with pretty much the same answers. Voice recognition on the part od Kinect 1 was also significant.

I think the Cortana assistant which will backend Kinect 2 and Bing will eclipse all earlier efforts in the market.

That's the problem. You are using it only for searches. ^_^

When Cortana arrives, Google Now and Siri would have advanced even further and with more integration done.

The speech tech itself is not so interesting, although the ability to mix multiple languages in 1 sentence would be awesome.

The thing that's interesting with speech driven interaction is the integration of multiple services, and the representation of the object models. In the legacy AppleEvent model, the user can address the contents of the apps. e.g., delete the word “bogus“ from the second paragraph; and chain multiple apps together. But it's too heavyweight.

In iOS7, it looks like they added motion context (e.g., is the user driving, walking, stationary ?), and more prevalent use of data detectors (e.g., is this segment of text an address, or time, or ... ?).

Traditional telephony services, UI navigation commands, and car kits are a lot more primitive.

 

[patsu]

Tellme or whatever its advanced to in windows phone is much more advanced than in windows mobile. I haven't used it in a year (I got a note 2 free) but it was doing what siri and google now was doing back then

Yelp itself was a huge failure but was relaunched and picked up steam , its recently (last year or so) been loosing popularity due to massive fake reviews

^_^ Yelp is great for identifying opening hours and most popular dishes.

Siri is not tied to Yelp. In China and other parts of the world, Yelp is not so useful.
They will continue to expand their portfolio of partners as we speak.

 

[temesgen]

article on MS tablet pricing:

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/09/24/has-microsoft-learned-nothing.aspx

 

[eastmen]

I would seriously consider ultrabooks with touch screen as an alternative to the Surface Pro though. I got my wife one (Samsung Ultrabook) for less than the original Pro, and while it has a lowish res, the larger (13") screen and better keyboard combine with 4GB and a 128SD, and for productivity apps this resolution still suits Windows better. And it still only weighs 1,5kg and lasts over 4hrs. But much will depend on your individual needs.

Ultra books are great. You just loose the tablet form factor.

Just depends on what a person wants

 

[eastmen]

article on MS tablet pricing:

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/09/24/has-microsoft-learned-nothing.aspx

Not a good article. The surface 2 is reduced in price compared to the surface 1.

The surface pro wasn't the cause of the write down , it actually sold really well .


The real problem are the accessories. They need to cut $40 from each cover and $60 or more for the power cover.

 

[temesgen]

Not a good article. The surface 2 is reduced in price compared to the surface 1.

The surface pro wasn't the cause of the write down , it actually sold really well .


The real problem are the accessories. They need to cut $40 from each cover and $60 or more for the power cover.

The pricing up to 32GB isn't great but I can see the possible justification however beyond that IMO its way too high, 899 for 64 GB and 999 for 128GB is too much....

 

[eastmen]

The pricing up to 32GB isn't great but I can see the possible justification however beyond that IMO its way too high, 899 for 64 GB and 999 for 128GB is too much....

What do you mean.


$900 for an i5 ulv ultra portable 64 gig ssd and 4 gigs of ram is to much ?

The mac air 11 inch is $1k for a 128 gig verison with a 1366/768 screen and no pen support.

I think its in line with other devices.


The 32 gig model is the tegra 4 model. Its $450 for 32 gig and $550 for $64 gig , vs the ipad which is $500 for a 16 gig model .

You also get full office with the tegra 4 model .

 

[temesgen]

What do you mean.


$900 for an i5 ulv ultra portable 64 gig ssd and 4 gigs of ram is to much ?

The mac air 11 inch is $1k for a 128 gig verison with a 1366/768 screen and no pen support.

I think its in line with other devices.


The 32 gig model is the tegra 4 model. Its $450 for 32 gig and $550 for $64 gig , vs the ipad which is $500 for a 16 gig model .

You also get full office with the tegra 4 model .

I wouldn't buy a Mac Air either... If I want to serious computing I'd buy a real laptop with more memory and storage. The appeal of ultra portable devices for me anyway is great battery life but with less robust apps and services but with the cloud it works. I wouldn't try to do any serious work with this form factor and as such it isn't worth the $$$.

Edit:

Just to be clear when I bought my laptop replacement last fall I ended up with a 13 inch portable which had 8GB memory and 750GB HD, it has an I5 processor and Windows 7 64bit. I think it weighs just over 3 pounds and has about 5 or 6 hours of battery life - all for under $800.00. If I had been willing to go without a DVD drive I could have got a similar machine spec wise but larger HD and just under 3 pounds. That to me is much better value than these so called ultra portables. It seems to me that your paying several hundred dollars more to cut out a little weight and bunch of storage.

 

[eastmen]

I wouldn't buy a Mac Air either... If I want to serious computing I'd buy a real laptop with more memory and storage. The appeal of ultra portable devices for me anyway is great battery life but with less robust apps and services but with the cloud it works. I wouldn't try to do any serious work with this form factor and as such it isn't worth the $$$.

I've been able to replace my laptop and tablet with my first gen pro. Since it has a usb drive , storage isn't really an issue. I fit all my programs on the internal ssd , I can put a 64 gig micro sd card in it and then of course since it has a usb port and is windows , I can plug in any hardrive of flash drive I want. I can also plug in keyboards and mice and hook up any hdmi / display port or dvi display to it.

I can do anything I can on any pc or laptop with my surface if I choose too but I can also go and sit on my couch and use it the same as the ipad . That's whats great for the device.

I will be in Disney next week with friends and family and I will be taking video with my camcorder and my gf will be using her dslr and when we get back to the hotel I can edit the video I just took on my surface and upload it to sky drive or even remote desktop into my home pc and transfer it. My gf will use full photoshop to edit the pictures she took and send them up to skydrive /facebook and back home .

Its something we really can't do with any of the arm tablets and certainly not to the same effect. An ipad which is the most popular arm tablets right now would require additional add-ons to work .


A laptop / ultrabook would do the same i'm sure in most catagories but a laptop will be bigger and an ultra book would be portable and in some ways a bit cheaper but i'd still end up wanting a tablet as its nicer on a couch or in bed and when someone travels as much as I do it just takes up a lot of room.

Everyone has different needs and wants. lIke I said , its really just the accessories that cost to much.


Touch cover at $60 that way for the majority of people you got surface 2 $450 + $60 = $510 vs the ipad at $500

Just to be clear when I bought my laptop replacement last fall I ended up with a 13 inch portable which had 8GB memory and 750GB HD, it has an I5 processor and Windows 7 64bit. I think it weighs just over 3 pounds and has about 5 or 6 hours of battery life - all for under $800.00. If I had been willing to go without a DVD drive I could have got a similar machine spec wise but larger HD and just under 3 pounds. That to me is much better value than these so called ultra portables. It seems to me that your paying several hundred dollars more to cut out a little weight and bunch of storage.

For me its more so removing extra hardware. Your 13 inch portable sounds pretty nice but its $800 add a high quality tablet and your looking at $1300 or so. Then your stuck with two devices. For me its not so great.


The only 2 gripes I could point to with the surface is that it gets hotter than i'd like (mostly when i'm using the type cover for games and what not ) and battery life. Both I knew about when I bought it. Surface pro 2 addresses both of those. Surface pro 3 will most likely hit the magical 10 hour mark and run even cooler

 

[temesgen]

I've been able to replace my laptop and tablet with my first gen pro. Since it has a usb drive , storage isn't really an issue. I fit all my programs on the internal ssd , I can put a 64 gig micro sd card in it and then of course since it has a usb port and is windows , I can plug in any hardrive of flash drive I want. I can also plug in keyboards and mice and hook up any hdmi / display port or dvi display to it.

I can do anything I can on any pc or laptop with my surface if I choose too but I can also go and sit on my couch and use it the same as the ipad . That's whats great for the device.

I will be in Disney next week with friends and family and I will be taking video with my camcorder and my gf will be using her dslr and when we get back to the hotel I can edit the video I just took on my surface and upload it to sky drive or even remote desktop into my home pc and transfer it. My gf will use full photoshop to edit the pictures she took and send them up to skydrive /facebook and back home .

Its something we really can't do with any of the arm tablets and certainly not to the same effect. An ipad which is the most popular arm tablets right now would require additional add-ons to work .


A laptop / ultrabook would do the same i'm sure in most catagories but a laptop will be bigger and an ultra book would be portable and in some ways a bit cheaper but i'd still end up wanting a tablet as its nicer on a couch or in bed and when someone travels as much as I do it just takes up a lot of room.

Everyone has different needs and wants. lIke I said , its really just the accessories that cost to much.


Touch cover at $60 that way for the majority of people you got surface 2 $450 + $60 = $510 vs the ipad at $500



For me its more so removing extra hardware. Your 13 inch portable sounds pretty nice but its $800 add a high quality tablet and your looking at $1300 or so. Then your stuck with two devices. For me its not so great.


The only 2 gripes I could point to with the surface is that it gets hotter than i'd like (mostly when i'm using the type cover for games and what not ) and battery life. Both I knew about when I bought it. Surface pro 2 addresses both of those. Surface pro 3 will most likely hit the magical 10 hour mark and run even cooler

We are definitely in agreement about storage, with the cloud I don't think anything more than 32GB is really necessary for most people. Would I like something a little smaller? perhaps but with a 13 inch screen I'm pretty much hitting diminishing returns, my display is high res enough to run a spreadsheet and a browser or another app at the same time without too much difficulty. Also having a full size keyboard means typing is a breeze. I personally can't stand to type on my tablet whereas on my phone the touch interface works well enough ironically I think due to the size... Longer batter life is the major upgrade I'm championing, when the I5 came out that is in my laptop I was under the impression that I might be able to get 6-7 hours out of it - now that would have been worth some extra $$ to me.

 

[wco81]

Well last year, Surface took up a big chunk, like half of the storage, for the OS, didn't it?

 

[blakjedi]

That's the problem. You are using it only for searches. ^_^

When Cortana arrives, Google Now and Siri would have advanced even further and with more integration done.

The speech tech itself is not so interesting, although the ability to mix multiple languages in 1 sentence would be awesome.

The thing that's interesting with speech driven interaction is the integration of multiple services, and the representation of the object models. In the legacy AppleEvent model, the user can address the contents of the apps. e.g., delete the word “bogus“ from the second paragraph; and chain multiple apps together. But it's too heavyweight.

In iOS7, it looks like they added motion context (e.g., is the user driving, walking, stationary ?), and more prevalent use of data detectors (e.g., is this segment of text an address, or time, or ... ?).

Traditional telephony services, UI navigation commands, and car kits are a lot more primitive.

none of these services are existing in a vacuum.

once the state of the art is known... its known. Unless there is radically new tech application behind the wall for Siri or Google NOW theres is no way that Cortana couldnt be at least equal... I'm not sure where you are going with your line of thought.

heres an example:

"Chinese website CtechCN.com claims to have some new tasty rumour titbits for Microsoft’s Cortana Voice Assistant.

According to their sources the voice assistant will offer one feature we have not seen yet on other operating systems. The service will be able to recognize users by their voiceprint and unlock the handsets just for them.

CtechCN claims this is more convenient that fingerprint unlock, but I am not too sure of this, as saying Open Sesame to your handset 5 times an hour can I am sure get quite tiring.

The handset will also offer a new feature that is now coming to the market for Motorola and the iPhone. The device will be able to accept voice commands even with the screen off, similar to Motorola’s Moto X handset. That device however uses a special chipset, making CTechCN wonder whether this Windows Phone 8.1 feature will be reserved only for the latest handsets.

They also report that, like Telme, Cortana will be extensible by 3rd party developers, and that developers will know more about the system by December this year."

 

[AzBat]

Could this news finally clue MS into that they really need to target the low-end more? I think they would be best served by going more after that market & when they start to saturate that market, then try more on the high end.

Company Meeting: Lumia 520 Is the Best-Selling Windows Device in the World

If you've been following my coverage of the Nokia Lumia 520 on the SuperSite for Windows, you know that this $99 wonder isn't just versatile and fun, it's also the best-selling Windows Phone handset by far, and has been the most-used Windows Phone handset in the world for months. But Microsoft revealed an even more fascinating statistic about this device at its company meeting: The Lumia 520 is the best-selling Windows device in the world, a milestone that includes both PCs and tablets as well as phones.

http://windowsitpro.com/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/short-takes-september-27-2013

Tommy McClain

 

[wco81]

Or it could suggest WP can only command lower prices.

The phone manufacturers need the profits of the high end too or you wouldn't see as many flaghship phones coming out every year.

Every player aims to get a bigger piece of the market that Apple and Samsung enjoys.

 

[blakjedi]

I wouldn't buy a Mac Air either... If I want to serious computing I'd buy a real laptop with more memory and storage. The appeal of ultra portable devices for me anyway is great battery life but with less robust apps and services but with the cloud it works. I wouldn't try to do any serious work with this form factor and as such it isn't worth the $$$.

Edit:

Just to be clear when I bought my laptop replacement last fall I ended up with a 13 inch portable which had 8GB memory and 750GB HD, it has an I5 processor and Windows 7 64bit. I think it weighs just over 3 pounds and has about 5 or 6 hours of battery life - all for under $800.00. If I had been willing to go without a DVD drive I could have got a similar machine spec wise but larger HD and just under 3 pounds. That to me is much better value than these so called ultra portables. It seems to me that your paying several hundred dollars more to cut out a little weight and bunch of storage.

Touch screen, Wacom stylus with 1024 levels of pressure, those must count for something.

 

[temesgen]

Or it could suggest WP can only command lower prices.

The phone manufacturers need the profits of the high end too or you wouldn't see as many flaghship phones coming out every year.

Every player aims to get a bigger piece of the market that Apple and Samsung enjoys.

Here's an article on what Samsung's new F line:

http://androidandme.com/2013/09/new...to-launch-galaxy-f-series-of-premium-devices/

personally the only thing I would be willing to pay a premium for would be a better camera.

 

[wco81]

I think there's a limiting factor on camera phone performance, unless you're willing to expand the form factor to have room for larger sensors and better optics.

Probably not worth the tradeoff to most people

Phone cameras are good enough now. If you want better image quality, you get a real camera for those occasions.

 

[liolio]

MS can benefit from Mantle

The more I think about it the more I think that Mantle is actually a good news for Microsoft if they look at it the right way and are willing to adapt their business practices.
Say XB1 struggles, MSFT can leverage Mantle to make PC gaming more attractive:
Make a windows "game edition" license free so HIV are more willing to build proper systems (/raise their margin a tad). So follow in Steam steps.
The OS is actually a service, activated through a subscription (so the cost is put on the costumers which makes hardware partner happy).
Download only (the original plan for the xb1).
No mandatory peripheral /support it all (from KB+M to pads to kinect).

The platform would be " open" though I think some sane restrictions would help make the platform a more comprehensive and profitable for the publishers to address : I would think SoC+UMA, minimal performances requirements, support for both x86 and ARM processors.
The burden of providing drivers API support to developers would be on the hardware guys shoulders (Nvidia, AMD, whoever from the ARM realm that has hardware that complies with the minimal requirements) as it is right now in the PC realm whereas in the consoles realm Sony or MSFT have to shoulder those efforts.
The hardware manufacturers have intensive to do the job right as they are competing against each others. The business model matching that game OS would not byte into their revenues (and HIV revenues).

Pretty much a blend of Valve approach and MSFT own approach with the xbox and more importantly xbox live.

 

[patsu]

I wouldn't buy a Mac Air either... If I want to serious computing I'd buy a real laptop with more memory and storage. The appeal of ultra portable devices for me anyway is great battery life but with less robust apps and services but with the cloud it works. I wouldn't try to do any serious work with this form factor and as such it isn't worth the $$$.

Edit:

Just to be clear when I bought my laptop replacement last fall I ended up with a 13 inch portable which had 8GB memory and 750GB HD, it has an I5 processor and Windows 7 64bit. I think it weighs just over 3 pounds and has about 5 or 6 hours of battery life - all for under $800.00. If I had been willing to go without a DVD drive I could have got a similar machine spec wise but larger HD and just under 3 pounds. That to me is much better value than these so called ultra portables. It seems to me that your paying several hundred dollars more to cut out a little weight and bunch of storage.

I use a souped up 13" MBA with a second 32" TV/monitor for development. ^_^

Works very well if you need to work from multiple locations. I shunt all the big laptops now.

 

[joker454]

I use a souped up 13" MBA with a second 32" TV/monitor for development. ^_^

Works very well if you need to work from multiple locations. I shunt all the big laptops now.

I actually do the same thing, I recently replaced both my desktop office pc and 2011 Mac Air with a new Haswell based Mac Air running Windows 8 and I plug it into a 30" screen to get 2560x1600 in the office. Since it has the HD 5000 Intel gpu means it's worked great with Vegas Pro 12 for video editing, and I'm fully mobile now which is awesome. As a bonus I get 11 hours battery life when I want to just use it casually, best of both worlds For the 10+ hour renders of my video projects I just use my gaming pc that lives in a closet and let it grind away overnight. Point being that laptops have really gotten quite strong, that I'm able to run my business which involves lots of video editing on a Mac Air is quite remarkable. The upcoming Macbook Pro's are supposed to have Iris Pro gpus so I'm going to check those out as well out of curiosity.

I think there's a limiting factor on camera phone performance, unless you're willing to expand the form factor to have room for larger sensors and better optics.

Probably not worth the tradeoff to most people

Phone cameras are good enough now. If you want better image quality, you get a real camera for those occasions.

It's anecdotal but the #1 complaint from the myriad of people I work with is the camera quality on cell phones, especially Android phones which are particularly bad. It's also, again anecdotal, the reason people nowadays are always asking me about my Nokia Windows phone. Doesn't matter where I am be at at the car dealer, in the grocery store, at the bank, at a video shoot, anywhere I'll hear "hey is that the one with the camera?", "how is the camera on your phone", "yeah I want to get one of those the camera is awesome", etc, etc, almost ad nausea now. I've even been asked to take pictures of people just so they can see it's quality which is kinda funny, but having seen how poor Android phone camera's are I can understand. Real camera's are not an option anymore, no one bothers carrying them around, they are basically dead.