MS's business future, particuarly in mobile space *spawn

[Rangers]

Apple popularised tablets with iPad. They refined them. Technology got to a point where the iPad experience was a possible and Apple made it happen, importantly with the right OS. Absolutely. But they didn't invent the tablet computer or PDA. There are plenty examples in history of where the leading brand of a product isn't is the originator, and in the field of technology everyone is borrowing ideas left, right and centre. If they didn't, we wouldn't have the progress we have now!

I distinctly remember Archos even had touch internet tablets before the iPad. That's why I find some of Apple's patent claims in the area (basically patents on rectangular touch tablets) so outrageous.

I cant take away from Apple to say iPad and iPhone werent huge leaps though. Really really really huge. I am sure those Archos tablets were complete garbage.

 

[liolio]

Well I'm not sure about what their future is, I rushed through those new Surface presentation and found nothing that retained my attention, it's expensive (the RT version the pro version is fine).
I think it's going to be hard sale, if I were an investors I would react badly /expect an upcoming inventory write off of the RT version version...

 

[eastmen]

Well I'm not sure about what their future is, I rushed through those new Surface presentation and found nothing that retained my attention, it's expensive (the RT version the pro version is fine).
I think it's going to be hard sale, if I were an investors I would react badly /expect an upcoming inventory write off of the RT version version...

How is it expensive. Its 450 so less than an ipad. but it also comes with office.

 

[BadTB25]

Well I'm not sure about what their future is, I rushed through those new Surface presentation and found nothing that retained my attention, it's expensive (the RT version the pro version is fine).
I think it's going to be hard sale, if I were an investors I would react badly /expect an upcoming inventory write off of the RT version version...

I was watching some live blogs of the presentation. I thought there was a lot to like and it addresses my biggest concern with the pro which was the battery.

Looking at getting the pro and will have to see how the price breaksdown for the different skus. Still pricey which was my biggest disappointment, but other than that I thought there was a lot to like.

Also, since Surface 2 (the RT replacement) is running Windows 8.1, does that mean it can now run legacy apps. I wasn't clear on that part of the presentation and it was never mentioned.

 

[liolio]

I was watching some live blogs of the presentation. I thought there was a lot to like and it addresses my biggest concern with the pro which was the battery.

Looking at getting the pro and will have to see how the price breaksdown for the different skus. Still pricey which was my biggest disappointment, but other than that I thought there was a lot to like.

Also, since Surface 2 (the RT replacement) is running Windows 8.1, does that mean it can now run legacy apps. I wasn't clear on that part of the presentation and it was never mentioned.

No it can't if I got that right though they are to dump the "RT" part so it doesn't "confuse" costumers, speak about a load of crap. Pretty much they are selling it as vanilla windows though it doesn't run vanilla windows programs, I feel like this could end up as a PR nightmare if some costumers feel like they 've been purposefully trumped (I think it is pretty to close that and that is really cheap from MSFT...).

 

[AlphaWolf]

How is it expensive. Its 450 so less than an ipad. but it also comes with office.

The TV ads say $350.

 

[eastmen]

The TV ads say $350.

Surface 1 is 350. Surface 2 is 450.

 

[BadTB25]

No it can't if I got that right though they are to dumb the "RT" part so it doesn't confuse costumers, speak about a load of crap. Pretty much they are selling it as vanilla windows though it doesn't run vanilla windows programs, I feel like this could end up as a PR nightmare if some costumers feel like they 've been purposefully trumped (I think it is pretty to close that my sell and that is really cheap from MSFT...).

OK, I guess it may be confusing. I will need to look into it more.
I was thinking of the Surface 2 for my wife and the Surface Pro 2 for myself.

I'm sure more info will be available so that I can make an informed purchase.

 

[blakjedi]

Other than the obvious chipset improvements... the camera on surface is now spectacular with 1/3" sensor in the camera. You can skype in total darkness and it looks like a fairly lit room. Also free skype wifi hotspots is also a definite boon.

 

[eastmen]

OK, I guess it may be confusing. I will need to look into it more.
I was thinking of the Surface 2 for my wife and the Surface Pro 2 for myself.

I'm sure more info will be available so that I can make an informed purchase.

Surface 2 is really Surface 2 RT . Its an arm chip the tergra 4 so you can't run anything other than arm apps.

 

[BadTB25]

Surface 2 is really Surface 2 RT . Its an arm chip the tergra 4 so you can't run anything other than arm apps.

For her, as long as she has the office apps, it will probably be fine. She doesn't have a real need for windows legacy programs.

I'm such a pack rat that I won't feel comfortable not being able to run older programs and files.

 

[eastmen]

So surface 2 would be fine with her. Its $450 but you might want to go for the $550 one with more flash.

Surface 2 pro would be fine for you. Gotta pick if you want 4 gigs or 8 gigs and then ssd size. I'd personaly go with a 128 gig and 8 gigs of ram. I think that's $1200 tho. Then there are the covers. THe power cover for the pro but the surface 2 doesn't support it , so she'd get a touch or a type keyboard. Those are $100

 

[BadTB25]

So surface 2 would be fine with her. Its $450 but you might want to go for the $550 one with more flash.

Surface 2 pro would be fine for you. Gotta pick if you want 4 gigs or 8 gigs and then ssd size. I'd personaly go with a 128 gig and 8 gigs of ram. I think that's $1200 tho. Then there are the covers. THe power cover for the pro but the surface 2 doesn't support it , so she'd get a touch or a type keyboard. Those are $100

What???? I thought the power cover was supported for all Surface platforms including the OG Surface Pro and RT.

If not, I guess the type or touch cover 2 will be fine. Also, on the live blog, I remember reading gestures being supported on Touch cover 2----wasn't sure what that meant. I haven't researched anything since the live blog. I need to look into it when I get a chance----no rush since it won't be available until October.

Also, thanks for the advice. I usually go for the high end stuff, but what you suggested for you personally sounds about right. Was it just me or did they not talk about support for SD cards on the new Surfaces? Hope it wasn't cut.

 

[eastmen]

Power cover = surface pro 1+2 price $200 adds 2:30 to the battery life

Suerface 2 32gb = 450
64gb = 550

The 64 gig is a no brainer here personaly.

Surface pro 2
64 gig /4GB = 900
128 /4 = 1,000
256/8 = 1300
512/8 = 1799

So I guess the 256/8 is the smartest choice there. If you want the power cover it be $1500 and you'd still save $300 over the larger ssd . You can add an micro sd card up to 64gigs (though a 128 gig is said to work in the pro 1 ) so you can put movies and music on that and you should be able to fit everything you'd need on the 256.

Touch cover 2 = $120
Type cover 2 = $130


I think its the covers that are priced way to high. I have a first gen type cover and its awesome. But i'd much prefer it to have been $80 or so. The power cover would fit better at the $130 mark and the type cover should have been $60


It doesn't make sense to go with a 32 gig surface 2. On the flip side I don't know if a 4 gig surface pro 2 is smart.


For me since I own a surface pro , there is no point in the pro2. Yes the battery life will go from about 5 hours to 7 hours and you get better performance from haswell , but its not worth me having to put in another $300 for the model i'd want and of course i'd be loosing money on selling my original pro so it cost even more.

For someone buying a surface pro 2 , i'd say the 8 gig 256 is the best model. Twice the storage and ram for $300.

I'm hoping that with broadwel in 2014 I will be able to get a surface pro 3 , 8 gigs with 512 storage for $1300 or less. That would be a good upgrade for me. 8 hours battery life+ would also be great. Get hopefully a even newer power cover and get over 10 hours of battery life... that would be a fantasy world for me lol


I can tell you however I used to have a touch pad with android 4.1 on it and a hp dm3 with a dual core amd neo , 8 gigs of ram and dedicated radeon 4330 (intergrated 3200) and I sold both of those off within weeks of buying the surface pro. My gf also went out and bought a surface pro after using mine to do lesson plans , something she couldn't do on her ipad 3 and didn't want to lug around the old plastic mac book the school gave her.

They are a great experience , they just don't work super well in a lap. My gf and I have a lap desk that we got for $15 for when we are in bed using it. The new kick stand should help with that also.


I have to say , I agree with paul thurrot's thoughts too. These all seem to be a bit to expensive. he wanted the pro 2s to be about $100-200 cheaper.

 

[patsu]

That's the best part. They don't _tell_ anyone they invented it. They just _imply_ it.

They are masters at manipulating public opinion. Nothing they said was untrue, but together it gave the impression that no one had made anything even close, despite TellMe, and Ford Sync doing most of what Siri can do.

My friend is in the founding team of tellme. I don't think it does what Siri does. They are rather different beyond the standard speech recognition capability.

Is Ford Sync a car kit ? Does it parse natural language and query Yelp, Wolfram databases, etc. when it was launched ? Did it have a cellular connection for carrying out transactions such as ticket and restaurant booking ?

Edit: Siri in iOS7 is actually pretty interesting and useful. Apple should update Siri every month instead of every year. It looks like the basic platform is finally fleshed out. That may be why they took it out of beta this month.

 

[eastmen]

My friend is in the founding team of tellme. I don't think it does what Siri does. They are rather different beyond the standard speech recognition capability.

Is Ford Sync a car kit ? Does it parse natural language and query Yelp, Walfram databases, etc. when it was launched ? Did it have a cellular connection for carrying out transactions such as ticket and restaurant booking ?

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. A feature in 2011/12 should be more capable than a feature in 2007 , esp consider yelp was a considered a failure in 2005 and was relaunched and didn't become much of a success until 2008. So why in 2007 would anyone care about yelp.

Tellme on windows actually let you search yahoo , google and windows live. I used to buy movie tickets though movie phone with it back in my mogul days.

 

[patsu]

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. A feature in 2011/12 should be more capable than a feature in 2007 , esp consider yelp was a considered a failure in 2005 and was relaunched and didn't become much of a success until 2008. So why in 2007 would anyone care about yelp.

Hm ? The point was Siri is very different and quite a bit more advanced than Tellme and Ford Sync. I don't know if Yelp's a failure. Many people still use it actively today. But it's just one of the apps that fit into Siri's framework, and Apple's ecosystem.

Tellme on windows actually let you search yahoo , google and windows live. I used to buy movie tickets though movie phone with it back in my mogul days.

At the beginning, Tellme also tried to advertise itself on radio to encourage people to call them for telephony services.

Searching is just a fire-and-forget type of interaction. Google Now does a much better job than Tellme to interpret the unstructured web search results in meaningful manners.

In Siri, they focus more on structured searches (e.g., Dictionaries, wiki, Wolfram Alpha, Yelp, Fandango, etc.), and can perform tasks or businesses from discovery to selection and correction to transaction. Its strengths are in the integration of multiple services into a coherent conversation driven OS.

 

[eastmen]

Tellme or whatever its advanced to in windows phone is much more advanced than in windows mobile. I haven't used it in a year (I got a note 2 free) but it was doing what siri and google now was doing back then

Yelp itself was a huge failure but was relaunched and picked up steam , its recently (last year or so) been loosing popularity due to massive fake reviews

 

[blakjedi]

Hm ? The point was Siri is very different and quite a bit more advanced than Tellme and Ford Sync..

I disagree on that count. I used several android based and windows mobile based voice searches and they usually came up with pretty much the same answers. Voice recognition on the part od Kinect 1 was also significant.

I think the Cortana assistant which will backend Kinect 2 and Bing will eclipse all earlier efforts in the market.

 

[Arwin]

I would seriously consider ultrabooks with touch screen as an alternative to the Surface Pro though. I got my wife one (Samsung Ultrabook) for less than the original Pro, and while it has a lowish res, the larger (13") screen and better keyboard combine with 4GB and a 128SD, and for productivity apps this resolution still suits Windows better. And it still only weighs 1,5kg and lasts over 4hrs. But much will depend on your individual needs.