MS Q2 Financials

RobertR1

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http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080124/earns_microsoft.html?.v=5

"For the quarter ended Dec. 31, profit increased to $4.71 billion, or 50 cents per share, from $2.63 billion, or 26 cents per share in the same period last year.

Sales from the division responsible for the Xbox 360 game console and the Zune digital media player edged up just 3 percent to $3.06 billion. But the division swung to a profit of $357 million from a loss of $302 million last year."
 
Before anyone asks:
We shipped 4.3 million and 6.1 million Xbox 360 consoles in the second quarter and first half of fiscal year 2008, respectively, as compared to 4.4 million and 5.4 million Xbox 360 consoles in the second quarter and first half of fiscal year 2007, respectively.
The full 10-Q is here.
 
Nice profit numbers. MS gaming divisions has definitly turned a corner, AFAIK this is the first time they've done two consecutive profitable Q's. The only previous for the division was the holiday 04 Q with Halo 2.

Now made 524 million the last half of the year. Hey, that's half the RROD writeoff made back :LOL:

I think this shows they really need a price cut now, not so much for USA but EU. Personally I expect one announced at GDC.

Just running the numbers, a $50 price reduction, lets say they ship 2.5m 360's in a (non 4th) Q, which is being very generous= 50x2.5m=125 million revenue lost.

Seems they could easily absorb that, even accounting the fact game sales will be lower in a non holiday Q, and not accounting for continuing hardware cost reductions.
 
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Robert you've got legendary speed on thread creation, I have to say. :)

Saved me the trouble, that's for sure... anyway going through the conference call right now to see if anything of interest comes up.
 
Sure they could absorb it, but remember that you have to think about the marginal gain of a decision, not just the outcome alone.

If they sell 2.5M with the price cut compared to 2M without it, then the software sales from those 500k extra units would have to cover the entire $125M loss in revenue. That's $250 per console, and you'd need a lot of games/accessories/downloads sold over their lifetime to get that much back to MS.

Price cuts are only worth it if they make a really big difference in sales.
 
This is great for them and their prospects. Given that we pretty much know they will cut the price around April for GTA4 and with this recent news for the 40GB Sku of the PS3 to be the only one, Microsoft may finally chop more than $50 off this time.
 
What's the tally on the Entertainment division since 2001 ? How much profit do they need to break even (ignoring inflation) :?:
 
I doubt the goal is to make money overall since 2001. At least some of those $billions would be considered a (worthwhile) investment to cripple the competition.

Consider that in 2001 the PS2 was discussed as being a potential home computer platform, and the PS3 has proven to be fully capable of being one, and you can see why MS might be eager to lose $few billion to neutralize that threat.
 
Exactly Mintmaster. I'm probably one of the only ones left on this board that thinks MS made the right decision to only cut the price by $50 in the US. They should have cut the price in Europe though, because the Euro is so strong against other world currencies right now they would have easily absorbed this.

I know that not many of you follow currency trends (part of my job as VP of finance of a manufacturing company), but the US dollar has really suffered against major world currencies this year. The Xbox 360 is largely manufactured in China.

When the X360 launched in November 2005, 1 Yan bought 0.123703 US$. Now in December of 2007, 1 Yan bought 0.13574. That's a drop of about 10%. Doesn't seem like much, but that means a $350 X360 yields $35 less than it did at launch, which is almost the other half of the $100 drop everybody was clamoring for.

Dropping another $50 would have cost MS about 3 million x $50 = $150 million and probably would have only boosted sales to casual gamers that don't buy as many games as the current userbase, so the loss may even have been a lot more than that as the overall attach rate would probably have fallen.

I DO think MS should drop another $50 in EU and another $50 when GTAIV comes out, but I don't see a problem with the premium being $300 in 2008, $250 in 2009, $200 in 2010 and $150 in 2011 onward. It seems reasonable to me.
 
Exactly Mintmaster. I'm probably one of the only ones left on this board that thinks MS made the right decision to only cut the price by $50 in the US. They should have cut the price in Europe though, because the Euro is so strong against other world currencies right now they would have easily absorbed this.
Even in Europe it's of questionable value. Will a 50 Euro drop result in 50% more sales? If not, I doubt it's worth it.

I think the point where it really affects sales is when the price starts to approach that of the PS3. As long as 360 is significantly less expensive than the PS3 in the mind of the consumer, there isn't much use in cutting the price further. There's no point in trying to compete with the Wii on price, because that's not the reason people buy it.

This whole generation we'll see that. MS will undercut Sony by a bit for the Premium and price the Core accordingly. If 360 happens to keep a huge lead on Sony, then MS can start thinking about matching the PS3 in price.
 
Well after listening to the conference call there's not really all that much of interest from a console perspective. Some things that did stand out were that they reiterated their target for full year year profitability for the division, and they mentioned that a $75 million drop in cost of revenue stemmed from 360 component price reductions. Now... since they in fact said that the cost reductions were partially counteracted by data center expense increases, consultant operations, and expansion at aQuantive, we can surmise that the component costs dropped more than that if viewed in isolation.

So... I guess the fun side project here is to guess at a number, grab a figure in terms of consoles manufactured for the quarter, and try to take a stab at how much MS has shaved off the cost of the console with their new revision.
 
Microsoft
2002 -750,000,000
2003 -1,191,000,000
2004 -1,215,000,000
2005 -485,000,000
2006 -1,262,000,000
2007 -1,892,000,000
2008 175,000,000
Totals -6,620,000,000

That's not updated to include this Q, though. So you can subtract the 354m from losses.
 
I dunno if it's ok to turn this thread into a price cut debate, but Johnny A and Mint, I totally disagree. The bottom line is looking at what 360 is and looking at history, a price cut is way overdue. I know everybody here knows the story but it's worth remembering Xbox 1 was at 199 just 5 months after it's introduction. 360 is now 27 months out and the "base" model is at 349. Next factor is look at what Sony has done, their machine has Blu Ray and is now just 399, only $50 more. Granted they are losing more money but, if MS cant do better than this it's a bit sad.

Also look at what 360 is, with no Blu Ray and no standard HDD there is nothing expensive in the machine. Too me what 360 actually is should probably be about 200 on the core model right now, 250 on the premium. Dont forget MS charges a mint on accesories like 49 wireless controllers, $180 hard drives, $100 wireless adapters which they sell tons of, etc. The whole point of expensive accessories imo is to get the base hardware into consumer hands cheaper, sort of trick them in a way. This isn't even mentioning the $50 a year for Live, which in 5 years is almost in essence adding $250 per live subscribed console to MS bottom line, that Sony isn't getting.

The "rumor", and an extremely lightly founded one, is that 360 might drop for GTA4, but since when has a console price drop ever been directly timed to a game? That is why I expect the announcment at GDC. The true goal would be a drop in time for GTA4.


Sure they could absorb it, but remember that you have to think about the marginal gain of a decision, not just the outcome alone.

If they sell 2.5M with the price cut compared to 2M without it, then the software sales from those 500k extra units would have to cover the entire $125M loss in revenue. That's $250 per console, and you'd need a lot of games/accessories/downloads sold over their lifetime to get that much back to MS.

Price cuts are only worth it if they make a really big difference in sales.

By this logic we would never see price cuts. You have to cut the price sometime. The bottom line is what it costs MS to make a 360 versus the price. When that gets extremely solidly in the black, they'll need to cut to keep up with the competition. It isn't just games sold on those extra consoles, it's gaining a market position. It's a give away the razors to sell blades model. Really putting Sony down for the count by some degree, how much could that be worth down the line? Of course it's all a matter of degree for all sides. Really what you are not factoring in is competition. All business would operate the way you lay out, in order to maximize profits, except the fact of constant competition leads them to profit less than they ultimatly could, in order to profit some versus none in the face of competition.

And the cut isn't really needed yet in USA, but it is arguably pretty badly needed in Europe. David Reeves just stated PS3 outsold 360 3-1 in Europe last week, has now passed 360 in install base in France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, and others, and expects to overtake 360 in all EU comined by summer. Then you have Warner's Blu Ray defection and a lot of big PS3 titles coming, PS3 could build a lot of steam quickly. I think something is needed pretty bad there. And I dont think it's really feasable to have a price cut in only one territory, at least it's rarely done.
 
Even in Europe it's of questionable value. Will a 50 Euro drop result in 50% more sales? If not, I doubt it's worth it.

You're not factoring in momentum though, which seems to be huge in the console market.

If MS allows sales to stagnate, that could allow Sony to sieze the momentum, and once they start outselling 360, it may never turn around.

I would think MS want to be aggressive (just as Sony was aggressive with PS1 and PS2) to ensure that their edge is never lost.

I mean, Sony certainly didn't have to cut price 33% in the US after year 1 with PS2. But they did. And look at the end result. it's the most successful console in history, and is a cash cow to this day, nearly 10 years after launch.

You can't always think short term profits or you'll sabatoge the long term success.
 
You're not factoring in momentum though, which seems to be huge in the console market.

If MS allows sales to stagnate, that could allow Sony to sieze the momentum, and once they start outselling 360, it may never turn around.

I would think MS want to be aggressive (just as Sony was aggressive with PS1 and PS2) to ensure that their edge is never lost.

I mean, Sony certainly didn't have to cut price 33% in the US after year 1 with PS2. But they did. And look at the end result. it's the most successful console in history, and is a cash cow to this day, nearly 10 years after launch.

You can't always think short term profits or you'll sabatoge the long term success.

Bingo. The more consoles sold means the more you tell your friends to get the same machine since you can game together. MS seem to be doing pretty well ATM, but their biggest fault this gen has been their lack of aggression IMO. Their lead globally isn't enough to simply sit back and rake in minor profits today, with the expectation they'll have money flowing in in a few years time. People will follow the momentum and go where it takes them.

I hope GDC shows some big new games, some new surprises (such as XNA with free/cheap user-provided gaming) and aggressive pricing to snatch up the market. By then the big games that made 06 and 07 very good years will be in the bargain bin, and who wouldn't want a machine with Forza, AC, COD4, Halo, Bioshock, ME, Gears, etc etc at Platinum pricing if the machine was relatively cheap? The hard part - the good games - is done. Don't fall over on the finish line. :???:
 
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