Most promising new console FPS control scheme

[NANOTEC]

Dude, stop freaking out and just use your head. All the facts are out there.

Thae fact you're stuck in your dual analog world and can't adapt to a new control scheme like others have?

PC FPS let's you directly control the look camera with the mouse. They don't let you do that with the Wiimote in any of the games. Logically, the reason for this is because mouse can be simply lifted off the surface and placed anywhere without screwing up how it relates positional data to the game. With the Wiimote, you have a very specific area you have to aim the IR emitter to (the visual range of the sensor bar), so mouse like roaming control is not possible.

The Wii controller is not trying to mimic a mouse. Instead of moving the whole screen with a fixed recticle in the center, it's allowing the recticle to actually move inside of the current camera position. This allows for very fast and accurate target aquisition without the negative side effect of wild jerky camera movement..

And unlike analog sticks, Wiimote does not have a fast automatic centering mechanism (something that's impossible for a free hand held pointing device). So if you try to program a look camera function like an analog stick, you will end up with relying on the user to manually center the cursor, making for a unrelaible and frustrating aiming experince.

The centering is user controlled because the Wii controller is user controlled. It doesn't have a spring for autocentering. It's made for people who know how to drive a manual transmission. You better stick to an automatic if you can't adapt.

Retro couldn't do it for the reason I mention above. It's not that they didn't want to. They couldn't.

Actually a button for self centering is trivial. Retro didn't think it was necessary.

When did I say it was fixed? I said it was slow to turn the camera. Learn to read.

Learn how to adapt to new control mechanisms.

Compared to you, I'm a Phd.

A Phd in understanding how dual analogs work perhaps. A Phd in understanding how Wii could work? Not even close. Stick to dual analogs.

And the moment an enemy is outside of your current camera view, you are screwed because it takes so damn long to "push" the camera to their position.

How long it takes is up to the game designer. The camera in MP3 seems pretty fast.

And get back to me when you can do that with Wiimote as well since every tremble and shake of your hands are translated on the screen. Hope you're not a coffee drinker! Moving enemies were a bitch with the Wiimote, which is why the traning wheel known as enemy lock on is still in the game.

The websites that tried MP3 didn't have any problems after a short learning period.

It sounds slow as fuck, and it is.

For people who are slow to adapt perhaps.

Again, I did very well on the demo. That wasn't the problem. The problem is that the game's controls were dumbed down for the limited technology of the Wiimote.

It was dumbed down so people wouldn't look like idiots jerking the camera around like they're on drugs.

I don't have to pretend.

Then stop pretending there's a problem with the controller and admit that maybe it's just you.

Even if I buy that theory, then tell me why Unisoft (one of the most prolific FPS and TPS dev/pub of last few years) chose to impliment the same gimpy control set up for Red Steel as well.

Because it works. MP3's control scheme seems to be much faster than RS.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

When discussing button placement on the right side you've said yourself "I think reaching that far would be awkward, so to have the buttons effective, "
So how is it a 'reach' for your right hand, but not for your left? You were right the first time, reaching beyond the default thumb position is reaching. Therefore, you should prioritize your inputs so the most heavily used input resides in that prime location.

By your new logic, placing the right-face buttons on the lower part of the controller would make absolutely no difference, and would be equally as comfortable to use. I think we can all agree that is false.

I wasn't talking about the right buttons. They're fine. I was talking about having the buttons where the thumbsticks are. If they were, to reach the far button (right button on the left set of four) yu have to reach over the buttons to press it. That's not a problem with the stick - you just push the stick on the left side.

" DS works for me, functionally and how it looks, so I can't see any reason to change it."
It's about evolving to meet the times....and it simply doesn't make sense to keep the D-pad in a more convenient spot than the thumbstick.

I think there is sense, but it might not be the best solution, at least not for everyone. How many XB games make use of the D-pad quite a lot? I know some of my favourite PS2 games do and want quick button presses. If the left stick and D-pad were swapped in positions, I don't think using the D-pad would be as effective. You'd be gaining a little on thumbstick use for a drop in D-pad use. If I present the logic of the argument in the extremes...

1) You have a controller where the sticks are 80% effective and the buttons are 80% effective

2) You have a controller where the sticks are 100% effective and the buttons are 20% effective

Which would you choose? The fact that sticks are used 90% of the time might suggest you go with number 2, but if that then makes the button presses awkward on the occassions you do need them to change weapons or skills, that's going to have a disproportionate impact on gameplay.

I'm not saying that's how it is. Just that's how it could be and is a design issue to consider. Placing the most used component in the most comfortable position doesn't equate to the best possible situation, but balancing the entire control setup does. That might be offset, might not be. Also, in the case of FPS control schemes which is the topic, Offset gives the same problem on XB as you get on DS anyway . How's about a sort of Lego five-part controller where the different bits can be pulled apart and reassembled in a different configuration? That'd keep everyone happy (until they wear down the connections from frequent reconfiguring and the control falls apart in their hands... )

 

[Chris123234]

Metroid Prime 3 aiming for people who like the Wiimote aiming.

Button + aiming for direct control of where the screen is aimed for people who like a more direct form of aiming. (like right clicking in a 3rd person game to use mouselook)

When you get sea sick just let go of the Button to go back to the Metroid Style of aiming. You get the best of both worlds; MP3 aiming for wandering around and Button + aiming for gun fights and turning the camera fast. You can even return to the MP3 style of aiming once you get the target in your crosshairs and can saccrifice the turning speed for the accuracy.

I win. Do I get a cookie?

 

[Arwin]

When I look at the pS3 controller demo in E3, I can't help but be impressed by its speed and accuracy. Therefore I think the new tilt and movement features will add some great options for console FPS games.

if I am right about the precision and speed, I see two major ways of using the new inputs.

1. using the new input for general movement
2. using the new input for aiming/looking

What you get, at any rate, is a great deal of input possibilities

move forward
move backward
move left
move right
move upward
move downward
tilt forward
tilt backward
tilt left
tilt right
turn left
turn right

Consider how this is more than the two analog sticks combined, as they each only allow movement on 2 axis. Also, they will be virtually analog both in terms of how fast you move / tilt the controller as well as how much, which means potentially excellent, precise and near mouselike control.

Now, looking around for instance can be done by using the tilt functions rather well. Tilt backward for looking up, tilt forward for looking down, turn left for looking left, and turn right for looking right. For humans this is very natural, as they can only turn their heads so far and that matches up rather well with the natural limitations of holding the ps3 controller with two hands.

But a lot more is possible. For instance, a quick move sidewards could become a jump sidewards, and then tilting the controller sidewards a roll sidewards. A nice switch would be to hold the controller backwards and move it around like controlling a turret / fixed gun on a wall or vehicle, which you could even move around with an analog stick in the meantime, if you're really coordinated.

Just take a look again at the tech demo, and see how precise and exact the virtual controller follows Phils manipulation of the controller.

It bodes VERY well, and I think this will greatly improve the joy of playing an FPS on a console using a controller.

 

[jpr27]

I agree that the Wii mote has alot of potential and I think it will depend on the developer who can get easy smooth accuracy and simple methods of using "motion" sensitive moves. Although we are commenting on FPS. (Although I think the Metroid was very interesting and has "some" potential, I think the Wii remote would make a great RPG controller. Using it to move then choose a target with button, then draw a symbol to cast a spell. (I thought I read about this maybe in a game) This is but one of many thoughts when I got a chance to see it in action. Im still not entirely sold on the FPS use yet but again, a good developer that makes proper use could change my mind.

For the PS3 I see the tilt functions in FPS more of a "tilt to lean" function. I think that would be pretty sweet if done correctly.