More ATI Driver News from Derek Smart

Doesn't 1/W interpolate completely linearly in screen space as does Z?

Note that there has never been a 'standard' W-buffer implementation; some used floating point, some used fixed point, some store 1/W, some store W, some store 1-1/W, etc. That, of course, is why the W buffer is dying out - because every piece of hardware needs hand-tweaking for every single game.

Of course, nvidia have the advantage that if 'it just works' on their hardware people assume it's a driver bug in other people's hardware, even if actually it's their hardware/drivers that are doing it wrong. This problem has been around for ages (and is much discussed in this forum) - again, in the olden days I spent many moons forcing drivers to emulate 3dfx's bugs - which then of course perpetuates the same bugs. I presume the same still goes on now but with nvidia as the benificiary.

 

You insinuated that the problem didn't exist. That's all I'm taking issue with.

And as to whether it's a good idea for DS to whine all over the Internet about his problems - well that's another matter entirely. I'm sure we all know the answer to that, and I'm equally sure DS couldn't care less.

 

Yes and all I stated was that no other game shows these 'bugs'..which in all rights should..which is why I asked what he is doing differently.

I asked him why we don't see this on Serious Sam:

His Reply:
Because my game is Direct3D

I reply:
Well Switching to Direct3D in Serious Sam shows no issues

He Replies:
Nothing

 

I wonder why...

 

Well, I was just asking you if you were aware of that fact. I didn't ask for further comments or your opinion on the situation. (Can we stop with that now?)

Well, of course they have the "right" to do that. But no more right than the software developer has to say UP YOURS to the respective IHV (my game won't support your card then) who has some obsure driver anomoly that only affects his game.

The point is, in both cases, (IHV being stubborn, or the developer being stubborn) the consumer suffers. Because the game won't run properly or at all on the hardware in question.

It's possible, considering the amount of 'press' and bitchin Derek does. ("Squeaky wheel" theory.)

However, I do tend to think it's A. That Derek is doing something that probably "should work" on the 9000 series, but doesn't. And for the 6th or 7th time (I'm losing count), and to get REALLY back on topic:

If it is A, do you think that Derek is justified in going so over the top on this issue considering this is new hardware, and it seems to work with no texturing issues on all other games known?

 

I don't blame other members flaming the $hit out of him, respect is earned not a given. He comes on here swearing a cursing, calling peole idiots and the like..so if he is going to dish it out be prepared to get some back.

Just because he is a DEV doesn't give him the right to attack people..and shows how mature Mr.Smart is.
To run and hide after getting flamed is just silly

 

one quick question

Do 9xxx series cards support multitexturing as they have only 1 TMU per pipe?

 

Re: one quick question

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/radeon9700pro/index.php?page=page17.inc#multipass

 

Re: one quick question

Yes. You need to read this.

[edit] Spooky!

 

Too slow...AMD power baby

 

Well I belive that DS did find issues and I am happy that some of them can be address. I also think that since every game and engine is different what works in one game may not work in another even though both follow DX specs. Thus not seeing the issue in SS:SE or other D3D games does not mean they dont exist nor dose it mean that DS coding it wrong. I think most of us understand that. Weather or not the drivers are terrible or not is up to each person to decided and yes dev have a different view. For the time being I am just going to sit back and enjoy my R9700 as for me it works and does what I need it to just fine.

 

Please try to get the quotes right. I have not said that

 

Too late, its alreeady happening the they [mods] aren't probably going to do anything about it because it fits right in with their fanboi agenda.

Take a look at the number of one-post wonders already.

Anyway, it looks like I'm done here. I refuse to post or engage in discussions with anyone, under these circumstances. If the mods do their job and things change, they can drop me a line. After all, if they took it upon themselves to announce the very minute I registered (go to the first page of this thread and see) and even before I posted, they can bloody well remove any/all posts which bear little or no relevance to the subject matter therein and subsequently ban the offenders.

If you think I'm kidding about the direction of this thread, it already made front page news at VE3D, the venue for inconsequential no-talent-having gits. Usually, they reserve this honor (of mentioning where devs are posting) for the likes of JC, Tim Sweeney, Mark Rein etc. I feel so special. No really, I do. Wanna feel my nipples?

Pricks.

 

Interesting thread this. And it shows again, that if you are having a controversial view on something, no matter how well you can found your claims, you will always be up for some good bashing (so much more if you have a temper as rash as Derek Smart).

I'd like to add my $0.02 anyway.

First of all, I'd like to hint everybody to the fact that Derek Smart's main claim is that

• ATI driver quality is notoriously bad, and below the standards of other reputable graphics cards manufacturers
• ATI driver quality decreases even from that level

He quotes a few problems with ATI drivers that have arisen during his development work to prove that point - not just the MT issue, which imo is abused a bit here to draw attention from what Derek really tries to say by pointing to some statement of his that seems questionable and thus suitable to shed a bad light on all of what he is saying about ATI drivers. I can also find no fault with him changing his stance with ATI drivers as he is making his experiences with them. If changing one's mind is a proof for hypocrisy, we're altogether hypocrites, I guess.

While I agree that Derek maybe should try to tame his temper a bit here, I nevertheless don't find it valid to put down everything he says for him getting upset, and to a certain degree I can even understand him: There seem to be always people who are not interested in having a reasonable discussion (or lack the intelligence or character for one), and have to resort to provoking people looking for one. I don't like such people.

Imo a message board like this one is for those looking for a discussion, not for an opportunity to insult or flame people doing so, and the advice to leave should be addressed to the latter category, not the further - they don't make a difference anyway other than giving a bad time to somebody making the mistake to listen to them for even a fraction of a second.

And no - this account is not a Derek Smart alias or agent or whatever. I don't know him personally and I don't even play the BC game series. I also have never posted here before under any other nick name.

I just don't like the direction this ... dispute has taken.

Kassandra

 

Kassandra

No but I have a good idea what you do for a living and who for ...

Serious claims for a newbie...want to give some examples to back that up ??

 

joe, my saying that i was not asking you how you felt about it was NOT that your personal opinion on the matter was not welcome (as otherwise i wouldn't be leading this very conversation with you in the first place), rather that i failed to see your answer to my question from what you said in your respective post. and i considered clearing this question rather important for our discussion. i apologize if it sounded offending in any way. really.

so your point being is that if both the IHV and the developer are sensible and good-willed eventually the consumer will be presented with an A-class title, and everybody will live happily ever after. yep, that's how things look from the broadest prespective. when you get down to details, though, things start to get more into the realms of efficiency and expedience - an A-class title today is maybe a B-class title in a year. or maybe no title at all (as publishers tend to be rather picky re the deadlines). that's why devs bitch on the IHV for this and that. and dropping support for a given piece of hardware is by far the easiest thing to do technically, but it's a lose-lose scenario for all parties involved, and especially so for the devs, that's why devs prefer bitching to showing the finger to IHVs.

it's possible, indeed. though, technically speaking, it'd be cheaper for ati if they simply came up with a simple, short article showing how derek screwed up in his code (not necesserily using his name there), and handed that article to a fansite, don't you think?

no, joe, i don't think that derek behaviour is particularly justified.. i mean, especially from his own viewpoint - he should be able to realize perfectly well that the time he spends 'going over the top' could have been better spent in trying to get his issues workaround-ed.. at least that's what most devs in his shoes would do. but maybe he has some reasons for behaving this way, which he hasn't disclosed yet. i just dunno.

 

This is exactly the problem with Derek showing up here. Any valid point he might make is completely overshadowed by his acting like an arrogant and pompous twleve year old in need of heavy doses of Prozac.