More ATI Driver News from Derek Smart

[Joe DeFuria]

That not-so-unique approach works fine on ALL cards, INCLUDING the 7xxx and 8xxx series. OK?

Sure. Unfortunately you have a unique and quite annoying way of ignoring the fact that the 9000 series of cards are NOT the 8xxx or 7xxx series of cards. Certainly, the 9000 series has drivers derived from earlier hardware, but these are new cards nonetheless, that are PARTICULARLY different when it comes to the way they multitexture.

Don't you think that going from 2+ TMUS PER PIPE (8000 series and below) , down to 1 TMU PER PIPE on the 9000 series is going to have an impact on the multitexturing drivers and hardware implementation?

Is it not REASONABLE to find out that the 9000 series acts a bit DIFFERENTLY than the 8000 series wrt multitexturing? (In some cases, *gasp* having bugs that were not present earlier?)

Next!

ps: Yes, I am deliberately ignoring the stupid jabs

Lol...you're going to have to continue to ignore those stupid jabs that are "stale news", as long as you continue to post in your equally stale brash manner...

(Edit...spelling.)

 

[Derek Smart [3000AD]]

Perhaps Derek, if you spent more time wokring on your game titles and less time responding to posters and praising yourself, your games would be better and you'd sell more and then your voice would carry more weight in the gaming community and on and on it goes...

Grow thicker skin Smart. It'll do you more good than any new driver release.

noodles out...

Oh look!! Here they come, the one hit wonders who register to post so they can smack me. So, was it good for you?

I guess thats my cue that my turn with the fanbois, is coming to a close

 

[Dave Baumann]

Derek, again they say “We do not plan to implement software support as this will de-stabilize the driver and we will take a significant performance hit.” – if they were just talking about this in terms of the SDK how could they ever plan to offer software support for it when there is no hardware? Are they going to ask everyone to send their boards back to they can squeeze an extra piece of silicon in the chip? Again, this reads they are not going to support a software W buffer because of speed, not that they have removed the W buffer from the hardware because of speed.

 

[Mize]

]

I guess thats my cue that my turn with the fanbois, is coming to a close

Actually it's your cue that flying off the handle with cussing and insults as well as frothing at the mouth tends to obscure any valid point you might want to make. Take the hint and realize that there are some folks here that would love to have your input, but not if it means wiping your spittle from their keyboards after reading your posts.

Mize

 

[noodles]

]

Perhaps Derek, if you spent more time wokring on your game titles and less time responding to posters and praising yourself, your games would be better and you'd sell more and then your voice would carry more weight in the gaming community and on and on it goes...

Grow thicker skin Smart. It'll do you more good than any new driver release.

noodles out...

Oh look!! Here they come, the one hit wonders who register to post so they can smack me. So, was it good for you?

I guess thats my cue that my turn with the fanbois, is coming to a close

Better a "one hit wonder" than a "no hit whiner".

BTW, I thought you weren't going to respond to jabs, which it wasn't necessarily meant to be. It's called curiosity. And seriously, why are you here participating in an obviously pointless thread?

noodles out...

 

[antlers]

Things go south really quickly when the professional Derek bashers start showing up.

 

[Sabastian]

] If you actually *gasp* did MORE reading and LESS posting, you would see the excerpt in my FIRST post to the board, from ATI confirming that there is in fact, a problem.

And in that same post is another excerpt again confirming that one of the reasons W buffer support was removed, was in the interest of speed.

Do yourself a favor and act like the smart guy I think you are. Go back to my first post and READ it.

But Derek, why don't you answer him and tell us why all those other games are working fine (as well as all the games I have played on my 9700) with multi - texturing and only you seem to have the issue. It seems the problem you are pointing out must be a very minor one.

Exactly, Mr. "Smarts" problems sound more of a personal nature then ATIs. Note the lack of response to plain logic from him.

 

[Galilee]

Well he does have a point when it works fine on every other card, and ATI has confirmed that they have recreated the problem.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Doesn't answer nothing..no explanation why other Multitexturing games run fine like Serious Sam 2...

 

[Galilee]

No it doesn't answer anything, but you can't say that the problem doesn't exist.

 

[no_way]

sorry for completely OT but could we, concerning special circumstances <flame war legend showing up> , just use heavy deleting of posts that have _nothing_ to do with ATI, driver quality, or any 3D graphics related subject at all ?
<including this post>

 

[darkblu]

Why do I get the feeling that a lecture on "consumer quality is derived directly from developer quality" coming?

maybe because you're begging for it?

say, joe, speaking of self-regulating supply-demand market models, you do realize that you actually paid out of your pocket for pretty much each and every workaround a developer had to put into this title you just bought to make features A and B work with cards X and Y? and we're not talking something extraordinary here (leave that aniso arg aside), just standard api features.

now, if you only play freeware titles, or such which, out of popularity or similar reasons, are among the very few titles that card driver teams actually do the fixing for them*, then good for you - the above question naturally would not address you - just skip it.



* in a relevant manner, that is; a fixup of a borken feature n months after the emergence date would only mean the developer already did a workaround for that.

 

[Doomtrooper]

No it doesn't answer anything, but you can't say that the problem doesn't exist.

Why can't I, lets be clear here..I take a Radeon 9700 and I run Serious Sam 2...load up it in Direct3D and it runs fine with Multitexturing (confirmed), load it up in OGL and runs fine with Multitexturing(confirmed)..

So a older popular title using current drivers works fine...so stating that what is Derek doing different than Croteam..

 

[Mark]

sorry for completely OT but could we, concerning special circumstances &lt;flame war legend showing up> , just use heavy deleting of posts that have _nothing_ to do with ATI, driver quality, or any 3D graphics related subject at all ?
<including this post>

yeah please - If the patterns I've noticed from &lt;flame war legend> are followed, he'll shortly announce that he's leaving the forum never to return (simple as that). And that's a shame really because there are some good opportunities for a really interesting thread here, especially if some of the ATI folks get in on it. Heavy handed mods would be good right about now.

 

[Sabastian]

No it doesn't answer anything, but you can't say that the problem doesn't exist.

Why? Because Derek Smart says there is?Though no one else is experienceing these problems? Think about it....

 

[Sabastian]

sorry for completely OT but could we, concerning special circumstances &lt;flame war legend showing up> , just use heavy deleting of posts that have _nothing_ to do with ATI, driver quality, or any 3D graphics related subject at all ?
<including this post>

yeah please - If the patterns I've noticed from &lt;flame war legend> are followed, he'll shortly announce that he's leaving the forum never to return (simple as that). And that's a shame really because there are some good opportunities for a really interesting thread here, especially if some of the ATI folks get in on it. Heavy handed mods would be good right about now.

I disagree if this is some sort of preview of his future actions Beyond3D may be well off without his dogmatic input.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

No it doesn't answer anything, but you can't say that the problem doesn't exist.

For about the 5th time....no one is saying the problem doesn't exist. No one is saying that any of the issues that Derek is having can't be legitimate.

The point is, if Derek is the ONLY ONE that is being impacted by this problem, it logically follows that Derek is taking some "rather unique" approach with multitexturing. I'm not passing judgement on whether this technique is good, bad or indifferent. But it should surprise NO ONE if such a technique fails on new hardware.

Can ATI or anyone else anticipate and test new drivers with every piece of software before release? Sure, they are going to test it with the most popular ones and benchmarks. Is that not expected?

So ranting and raving about it like a lunatic making statements like "it works on other / older hardware" is hardly what one would think is an appropriate response....

He told ATI about it...they reproduced it, and are taking some action. What more would anyone want?.

 

[darkblu]

No it doesn't answer anything, but you can't say that the problem doesn't exist.

Why? Because Derek Smart says there is?Though no one else is experienceing these problems? Think about it....

..and thinking about it, it sounds to me you're either

a) everybody else (developers, that is)
b) you're aware of every issue a developer's had, or is having right now, with this particular piece of hardware?

say, sebastian, how old are you?

 

[Gerry]

Errrm, perhaps Galilee is stating you can't deny there's a problem because ATI themselves confirmed that there IS a problem (which Galilee has stated above). Unless of course you want to go down the road of accusing DS of lying, which would seem a bit far-fetched.

I think what you're failing to take note of is the fact that the BC series raises a completely different set of technical issues compared to, say, a Quake clone. It's not a huge surprise DS finds a few bugs that others may not.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

say, joe, speaking of self-regulating supply-demand market models, you do realize that you actually paid out of your pocket for pretty much each and every workaround a developer had to put into this title you just bought to make features A and B work with cards X and Y? and we're not talking something extraordinary here (leave that aniso arg aside), just standard api features.

Yup. And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

You are telling me that consumers make it difficult for hardware and software IHVs alike. Big news there.

Consumers see a problem, and they want it fixed ASAP. They don't (unfortunately) care WHO fixes (or works around) the problem, or what other problems down the road that might cause.

One thing consumers don't have, is patience.

* in a relevant manner, that is; a fixup of a borken feature n months after the emergence date would only mean the developer already did a workaround for that.

If possible, yes. Again, what's your point? That IHVs all need to identify, verify, and immediately fix each and every "developer and consuemr reported issue" with zero response time?

Unfortuntately, IHVs do not have unlimited resources. (Those pesky consumers won't pay for it). So they have to do this thing called "prioritize" issues, and look into / address them in turn.

I'm still not sure what your overall point is here...maybe you can clarify.