Moore Threads MUSA-architecture and MTT video cards

Kaotik

Kaotik

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Chinese "homebrew" video cards based on MT Unified System Architecture aka MUSA.
Supports DirectX, OpenGL (+ES), Vulkan, OpenCL, SYCL and of all things, CUDA.

upload_2022-4-1_0-27-57.jpeg

MTT S60 is 2048 MUSA cores + 8 GB of LPGDDR4X memory (typo? probably LPDDR4X), up to 6 TFLOPS in single slot package
MTT S2000 is 4096 CUDA cores + 24 GB of unknown memory, up to 12 TFLOPS

upload_2022-4-1_0-27-52.jpeg

12nm so could be chinese built too?

https://www.techpowerup.com/293474/...mtt-s2000-graphics-cards-with-directx-support
 
Kaotik said:
Supports DirectX, OpenGL (+ES), Vulkan, OpenCL, SYCL and of all things, CUDA.
Click to expand...

Does that mean they already have device drivers and software for it supporting all of those? Or that it's possible for them to support it given enough time to create the needed drivers?

Or is this an April 1 news blurb?
 
BRiT said:
Does that mean they already have device drivers and software for it supporting all of those? Or that it's possible for them to support it given enough time to create the needed drivers?

Or is this an April 1 news blurb?
Click to expand...
Nah, it came out before April 1st (30th March in one of the sources).

Also they showed S60 running League of Legends at 1080p but no performance data
 
New GPU is up, MTT Chunxiao, first PCIe 5.0 GPU

14.4-15.2 TFLOPS FP32, claimed comparable performance to RTX 3060 Ti but not confirmed. Shown benches claim 3.4x in select DX titles compared to their last gen GPU, 5x in OGL, 2-4x rest of the stuff.
Should become available today in China.
S80 for desktop, S3000 for servers.

www.tomshardware.com

Chinese Moore Threads Unveils Chunxiao GPU: 4,096 SPs, GDDR6, PCIe Gen 5

Moore Threads's Chunxiao graphics processor aims AI, datacenter, and gaming.
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com
videocardz.com

Chinese Moore Threads MTT S80 GPU announced with 4096 cores, 16GB VRAM and PCIe Gen5 support - VideoCardz.com

MTT S80 is the first PCIe Gen5 ‘gaming’ card Moore Threads announces new desktop graphics card based on a new GPU. This Chinese company has only been established in 2021, but has been on a schedule to introduce high-end graphics for data-centers and gaming as quickly as possible. Although we...
videocardz.com videocardz.com
 
I'll be surprised if they're able to receive official WDDM certification since their own government is trying to pivot their people away from Microsoft/Windows as much as possible. I guess if their domestic developers are still chummy with the APIs offered by Windows they can just settle with using translation layers ...

They also have Khronos Group membership as well so I can see them eventually upgrading their membership and submitting their products for conformance testing ...
 
Lurkmass said:
I'll be surprised if they're able to receive official WDDM certification since their own government is trying to pivot their people away from Microsoft/Windows as much as possible. I guess if their domestic developers are still chummy with the APIs offered by Windows they can just settle with using translation layers ...

They also have Khronos Group membership as well so I can see them eventually upgrading their membership and submitting their products for conformance testing ...
Click to expand...
Sounds like a potential for DXVK to plug the gap.
 
Albuquerque said:
Sounds like a potential for DXVK to plug the gap.
Click to expand...
They might just consider making their own translation layer over using DXVK since that's only tested extensively with AMD or Nvidia HW. DXVK doesn't run well over MoltenVK or on Intel graphics ...

I can't see how translation layers would be ideal from both a code maintenance or performance overhead perspective so they'll probably lobby for Tencent and it's studios as hard as possible to offer Linux builds of games, make Vulkan (maybe WebGPU too) the default gfx API, and develop anti-cheat kernel drivers to be compatible with Linux ...
 
Whats the intended market here?
If it's PC gaming they are going to have to make nice with windows / DX12 etc..
Linux / openGL gaming, seems like a dead end.
Vulkan gaming? not sure a Vulkan only device would be that successful either.

IF there going for the scientific market, which CUDA support would point to, good for them,
but will Nvidia, throw a fit at them claiming CUDA compatibility?

I love the idea of new competitors in the GPU space, but i dont really see the target market here?
are there enough gaming cafes in china, playing older games to support this product?
 
vjPiedPiper said:
Whats the intended market here?
If it's PC gaming they are going to have to make nice with windows / DX12 etc..
Linux / openGL gaming, seems like a dead end.
Vulkan gaming? not sure a Vulkan only device would be that successful either.

IF there going for the scientific market, which CUDA support would point to, good for them,
but will Nvidia, throw a fit at them claiming CUDA compatibility?

I love the idea of new competitors in the GPU space, but i dont really see the target market here?
are there enough gaming cafes in china, playing older games to support this product?
Click to expand...
They likely have fixed function graphics acceleration hardware so PC gaming is definitely one of their markets but not necessarily Windows since they might get blocked due to geopolitical reasons. Vulkan makes sense because it's guaranteed to be a success eventually since it's the only option for Android's graphics future which is going to allow the API to lift itself into relevance so that they'll be able to leverage a large pool of existing developers with it as a benefit. Windows compatibility will only likely be offered with translation layers. They're expecting all of Tencent and NetEase's game studios under them or other game developers in China to move on to Vulkan because they can't just keep their customers using an unsupported operating system for security reasons ...

The latest iteration of Windows isn't an option yet because their government still hasn't approved it for sale in their jurisdiction and once Microsoft stops updating Windows 10 on a regular basis, those systems will start becoming a security risk thus a replacement is absolutely paramount. I'm not entirely sure if they're absolutely going to stick with using the Linux kernel as a basis for their operating system or if they'll use/develop another kernel. There are reasons both for and against using Linux because while the government can't have total control over it's codebase they would certainly prefer not to reinvent the wheel as much possible. Their government probably can't be prosecuted for making a closed source fork of Linux but they risk receiving backlash from the larger development community if they do so in which they might stop accepting their contributions or supporting them altogether (essentially boycotting them). Missing out on what the Linux development community has to offer means that they'll be limiting the influence of their own operating system around the world which will make Windows the dominant operating system for an indefinitely longer period as opposed to being toppled by a viable alternative in an earlier timeline ...

Their CUDA compatibility is probably some source to source language translation layer that's already offered by competitors like AMD and Intel ...
 
Silent_Buddha said:
It'll potentially hinder exports to some extent (depending on which countries enforce them) but sanctions should greatly increase its adoption in China.
Click to expand...
I think China's ability to manufacture large ICs even at 12nm is non existent.

Unless it's 12 nm FD-SOI foreign fabs would be covered by the new export restrictions.
 
MfA said:
I think China's ability to manufacture large ICs even at 12nm is non existent.

Unless it's 12 nm FD-SOI foreign fabs would be covered by the new export restrictions.
Click to expand...

There aren't yet any Chinese owned fabs with the ability to make chips on 12 nm, however, SMIC is close and they've increased spending on achieving that breakthrough.

And it's still unknown how the situation with China - Taiwan is going to play out. With China's increased sabre rattling after their latest 5 year congress, there's still a possibility that China will attempt a forceful takeover of Taiwan. Of course, if that happens, I fully expect that TSMC has plans to attempt to destroy their fabs in Taiwan in order to deny China access to them.

Regards,
SB
 
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