Microsoft's true goal

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I'm suggesting that this whole console affair (you cannot call it business, because business is about profit) is about something else..
Business is not allways about profit. Aquiring assets like Mrcorbo said is also a part of business, as is many many other things. MS is putting themselves in a position where their software may eventually reach many many more people.



And It's also about "spend this money somewhere or pay it in taxes". With the huge MSFT profit margins the taxes are equally high.
What is not about: Nintendo, nobody was thinking that they'd pull it off.

A general tip to everybody: if you dont know anything about finance\economics, dont bother to make up stories.

No company is going to spend money on a project that doesn't meet the required ROI, just for the sake of paying less taxes.

If you dont want to pay taxes, you simply issue more debt or you could just buy stocks from high dividend companies (corporations pay very little dividend tax in the states, if any). Case closed.

No stockholder is going to let a company piss away all their taxable income instead of paying them dividend. No company in the world will do that. They may piss away their money on a project that turns out bad, but they will never piss away money money like that on intention.

MSFT in particular is not even a company that tries to aviod taxes, as they have little to no long term debt.
 
Business is not allways about profit.

Charity? Acquiring assets and not making any money from it?

No company is going to spend money on a project that doesn't meet the required ROI, just for the sake of paying less taxes.

MSFT has high profits, they absolutely need to invest it somewhere.
So they are investing. Which leads to lower numbers in monthly report -> less taxes. Not too hard to get?

If you dont want to pay taxes, you simply issue more debt or you could just buy stocks from high dividend companies (corporations pay very little dividend tax in the states, if any). Case closed.

If you're a small company. If you buy stocks for 6B they won't cost even 1B next day.

No stockholder is going to let a company piss away all their taxable income instead of paying them dividend.

No comment, I'd say.

They may piss away their money on a project that turns out bad, but they will never piss away money money like that on intention.

Do you seriously think that MSFT has a common target and communicates it to everybody?
MSFT is a huge company, which means they have a lot of executives and divisions, which means that the goals are spread among them.
If some executive thinks that console affair is good, the division will get into it.

MSFT in particular is not even a company that tries to aviod taxes, as they have little to no long term debt.

MSFT is a company which pulls 400% profit margin, eg. a lot of money they need to invest somewhere or they'll loose it.
 
Can I download it to my PC :?: :|

Sure you can. That is what Gamefly, Steam, and XNA offer. Oh wait, XNA didn't deliver on cross platform launch promises either. So maybe not, they may again require Microsoft hardware or new $400 software to play MS games. Like Halo 2 @733Mhz and other MS games being Vista only and recommending Ultimate as somehow customized for Gaming. (Instead of being the slowest Vista.) No wait they fixed that too. Their tuesday system updates set all pc CPU's to run at maximum (100% power) all the time even when on battery or using Cool' and Quiet cpu's and motherboards. Hope you like the sound of loud fans (Xbox 360, Vista PCs) and increased electric bills (Vista PC's).

Shifty Geezer,
I doubt an online game model is their end-game.
As mentioned in other discussions, online only doesn't appear practical for a long time. What's more appealing is distribution of 100 MB albums and streamed movies, something pretty much every household could have an interest in rather, than 8 GB games, or far bigger games in future.

I also doubt the success of such a plan. But this isn't my idea we are discussing. Microsoft reps have said for themselves that microsoft believes between 2010 and 2015 they see it happening and intend to plan for it.
 
I figure now MS goal is to hang on till next generation. They have basically given up around the world. They are surrendering NA to Sony by refusing to cut the price. It is a shame MS has given up this time around when they were to so close to at least securing NA. All they needed was a price cut now with GTA4 and they could hold on for dear life. Instead they will let sony steam roll them come this fall with a monster line up of exclusives starting with MGS4 in june.

I love my 360 but I see no reason any sane person would buy one right now with pricing.

The games library. What's an extra $50 when you can't play the games you want to play on PS3.

All this MS doom and gloom is ridiculous. How is MS ceding NA to Sony when they still have a 3:1 userbase advantage. Seriously.
 
Seriously. The amount by which the PS3 is currently outselling the 360 is small compared to the amount by which the 360 outsold the PS3 from holiday 2005 to holiday 2007.

A response from MS is certainly warranted, but I don't see any cause for panic. To read this thread, you'd think MS is out of options or something.

Those people talking about MS "giving up" and "surrendering" must have had awfully dire words to describe Sony's situation a year ago.
 
I remember reading, that around 1999, Microsoft saw that Sony had had huge success with the PS1, selling roughly 70M worldwide and that when PS2 was announced, it was a seen as a huge threat to MS. At one point MS offered to put its OS in PS2 but Sony refused. Thus, Microsoft would have to enter the market directly with their own PC-based or custom-designed console. They decided on the PC-based console, the first Xbox.
 
I remember reading, that around 1999, Microsoft saw that Sony had had huge success with the PS1, selling roughly 70M worldwide and that when PS2 was announced, it was a seen as a huge threat to MS. At one point MS offered to put its OS in PS2 but Sony refused. Thus, Microsoft would have to enter the market directly with their own PC-based or custom-designed console. They decided on the PC-based console, the first Xbox.


Not so many people remember that story.At least SEGA made a small room for win CE...
 
The games library. What's an extra $50 when you can't play the games you want to play on PS3.

All this MS doom and gloom is ridiculous. How is MS ceding NA to Sony when they still have a 3:1 user base advantage. Seriously.

The Game Library, same argument could be made for “why leave PS2 for a new system?” Which brings us to the point consumer awareness, interest, and budget! What games do you want to play? What consoles do you use? Are you subscribed to or do you read any media source that cover other console gaming?

Don’t know anything about, Doom and gloom. (Dissatisfaction with Microsoft administrative and fiscal practices, then Yes.) However the launch advantage leading to a 3:1 American install base is eroding away. So here are some numbers collected together to give us a much bigger and more accurate perspective.

Wii ~ 5.80M Japan; 10.34M America; 7.74M Others; Total 23.89M @ 44.3%
Xbox360 ~ 0.60M Japan; 11.49M America; 6.14M Others; Total 18.24M @ 33.8%
PS3 ~ 2.06M Japan; 4.59M America; 5.14M Others; Total 11.79M @ 21.9%

Wii will surpass XB360 in all totals worldwide by this November and is almost 10:1 in Japan. PS3 when compared keeping XB360's one year head start is 4:1 in Japan, selling between 4:1 & 8:1 every week. In Europe and other nations the install base is PS3 5:6, with PS2 selling 2:1 over XB360. In the United States or America existing install is 1:2.5 with PS3 barely ahead every month so far this year.
Japan http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?con...n&cons3=X360&reg3=Japan&start=39187&end=39551
America http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?con...cons3=X360&reg3=America&start=39187&end=39551
Europe http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?con...&cons3=X360&reg3=Europe&start=39187&end=39551

While an Xbox360 advantage still exists in a single market for a single comparison, the install advantage as a measurable difference doesn't exist in any other comparisons. So you see the advantage isn't as steep as we once thought. Xbox's one year head start has largely disappeared, in the year-and-a-half the competition has been around. In order to have lost so much ground, they have recently been steeply outpaced in their rate of growth. Here is a paralleled comparison of growth since launch. http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php each marked in weeks. With the arrival of Dual Shock 3, New bundles, Reduced price White PS3, Wiiware, & Wii Virtual Console. There is little reason to doubt that Wii and PS3 will gain even more traction in 2008 market growth. This year should be very interesting, if not exciting!
 
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Listen, you were talking about North America. So was I. MS is FAR FAR FAR away from ceding NA to Sony. It was a completely erroneous statement and I pointed that out to you.
 
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Xbox360 ... 18.24M
PS3 ... 11.79M

While an Xbox360 advantage still exists in a single market for a single comparison, the install advantage as a measurable difference doesn't exist in any other comparisons. So you see the advantage isn't as steep as we once thought. Xbox's one year head start has largely disappeared, in the year-and-a-half the competition has been around. In order to have lost so much ground, they have recently been steeply outpaced in their rate of growth.

I don't get it. In the HD console space, Microsoft holds 61% of the market worldwide and has a higher attach ratio. If you include the Wii, which I agree does compete against the 360 and PS3 somewhat then the market lead doesn't look so pronounced. But if you're going to do that you can include the PS2, PSP, DS or anything else that would compete for a person's entertainment dollars.
 
If we're bringing up Europe sales, then this news from today is relevant:
Eurogamer said:
Microsoft has revealed that Xbox 360 sales have doubled in Europe since it cut the price of the console on 14th March. Well done self, it said.

The platform holder reckons its console is number one in Europe, the Middle East, and Africa, as it owns 42 per cent of the market in terms of life-to-date sales.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=132728
 
As discussed in the other thread where this is mentioned, this press release doesn't actually help. Double what? 200k a month to 400k? Or double 20k a month to 40k? Also how did the other consoles do? If their sales went up too, the relative gain is reduced, and potentially the unit gain could be negated. If PS3 (coz everyone ignores Wii!) went up by 50% from 300k to 450k when XB360 doubled from 150k to 300k, XB360 would still be selling less.

Without 'how many units are being sold per week/month' figures, there's no real debating Europe. We only have hearsay.
 
Listen, you were talking about North America. So was I. MS is FAR FAR FAR away from ceding NA to Sony. It was a completely erroneous statement and I pointed that out to you.

Yes, America is part of the topic. But is it "Microsoft's True Goal" to grow and dominate only America? Bill Gates himself has stated that Microsoft tolerate(d/s) Copy-Theft in China for the sake of creating and install base. And have been selling official licenses for $6 in China for that same reason. The topic has not been changed. The discussion has simply expanded to include "goals". And staying in America just because the market is comfortable is not one of those goals.

This is also not a Xbox vs PS discussion. The issues is bigger than an "HD Console" competition. It is clear that the Wii is a sales success. Super Success. And that it is making inroads in all the same market sectors as Microsoft's console. In other words, Downloadable Media, Streaming on Demand Video, Social Networking, Retro Arcade(Virtual Console)/Console(Wiiware), Expandability, Tie in. etc

To this point the fact that Microsoft is looking into motion controls this generation is in direct response to the success of Wii. As much as the elite gamers, and online forumites would like to see the divide, Wii is a gaming console. It may not appeal to the tastes all of individuals or those who want to game on an HDTV. But the largest install base in still standard TV by my guess 20 homes to 1.

Forgive my writing for covering more than one point. In summery Microsoft in an international company. Nintendo Wii is drawing developers and media sources away from Microsoft because Nintendo is offer development stations for 25% of what an Xbox dev station costs. http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46958&page=2 Additionally Wii is offering better online royalty rates than XNA, and the most mature Software Development Kit of the three "consoles". While some previous posts limited Microsoft's competition to Sony, that is not how any industry tracking firm or business analyst sees it.

Microsoft is not ceding anything. No one is. However due to the difference in rate of growth, Xbox's install base in North America will be surpassed on Nintendo Wii this year. And despite MS having a larger install base that Sony, the consumer momentum of said base has recently been waning as the PS3 has also gained momentum. In order to lead you can not stand still and rely on the fact that you were the first to 10 Million. Turtle and the Hare or the Camel and Coyote. Is the Xbox sleeping after a glory sprint? Catching its breath? Or are they looking at the next console already? Perhaps a little of all three.
 
If they keep failing at them and lose money, the shareholders wont like it, but if there really is a 20yr plan to lose a crap load of money to try and gain leadership of the living room, it may be worth it...

In one of my previous careers I worked a helpdesk that handled technical support questions from many service areas including Redmond region. Inevitably some Microsoft employees would call for help. I loved this job and was good at it with low Average Handle Time and excellent metrics. So when interesting people called I'd chat for a bit. One of them pointed out something funny about management. Since then I tend to be more observant of the administration at Redmond. The philosophy is to win even when losing. Brilliant!

Examples of this come from the Immersion Settlement Contract, Wistron Contract, Nvidia Xbox Contract, even my previous helpdesk contract, and Windows own piracy in China, etc. Microsoft writes up a contract that promises tons and tons of revenue. If you accomplish this, do this, rank like this among your competing vendors, etc. we give you Big Pile Of Cash! But in reality there are tons of penalty fees, and required discounts written into their contracts. It’s like working for the strictest least helpful teacher in school, who tells everyone they already have an A+ in the class. From this point it is up to them to maintain it. Then the teacher passes out surprise exams. Microsoft contracts are some of the least profitable contracts around, with some stipulations being completely subjective. If mismanaged, your business could easily wind up paying your employees and paying Microsoft for giving them something to do.

Coming back to you point of shareholders and stocks here is a funny example. It shows you are correct about the long view, but they are manipulating the short view as well.
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.c...news_summary_bach_sold_more_shares_offic.html

Before Microsoft announced the Billion dollars set aside for Xbox 360's inherent design defects, people such as Robbie Bach sold stock to buy it back later when they thought it would be cheaper. Bach sold off $12 Million dollars in personal MSFT stock before announcing this billion dollar plan and accidentally did not report his stock sales to the SEC until after the announcement because of an administrative error. Really just a case of coincidentally convenient "Plausible denial" on his part.

You see Bach and many people like him at Microsoft practice insider trading on a regular basis. Buying and selling their own stock to avoid loss and capitalize on anticipated growth. It's a human tendency. But on this scale an minor 8% change in value equals $1,000,000 dollars saved. Then bought back, it returns to the same value but grows 10% to get there. So if you sell 12 before it drops to 11, and you later buy 12 back. This then grows by 10% it gains you $1.2 Million dollars just by returning in value and not actually growing. While everyone else either lost $1 million or gained nothing.

In reality, Robbie Bach (and to some degree Biil Gates), and a few others traded and sold for nearly a 50% gain over current value, not the 10% example. Each buying and selling at MSFT’s troughs and peaks.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=MSFT Furthermore you will notice that the value of the stock reflects some automatic caps from insider trading and not real business. The value is driven by hype and managerial purchase or sale. With the stock value reacting to insider trading once such trades are reported to the SEC. It you know the delay you can manipulate the value of the stock by anticipating disclosure dates and buying or selling based on those dates. For instance. While many people look at these charts and see Gates William H III and Bach Robbie selling $100’s of Million is not Billion$ in the case of Gates “retiring”, the truth is that they have set up funded living trusts (In Gates case a Foundation), that are buying back stock at the lowest value, but are not reported as insider, because to the SEC the trusts are legally separate entities.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=MSFT&t=1y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

Microsoft branding has grown to the point that people blindly buy the stock just because "My God, it is Microsoft." The most impressive thing about the company is its legal bureaucracy. They attract top level talent, then manipulate talent with vagueness, and administrative obfuscation until the talent doubts its own ability. An example of this was Vista and the PlayForSure DRM initiative they forgot to include in Vista compatibility. The lack of elegance in manipulating Vista is almost entirely due to administration. Then to cover up the bloated interface's slow response rate and horrible XP verses Vista benchmarks was for Microsoft’s latest release updates to tweaks your settings to run the CPU at 100% whether on battery or plugged in. Completely defeating battery life, PowerNow, and any other speed stepping your pc would use to save power. Costing consumers and Business millions of dollars in power bills. Not a programmer decision. Yet another administrative decision that manipulated the end user for the sake of its Corporate image. "It's not Vista's fault. Your PC was just too slow to support our redundant, redundant interface."

As for the share holder's their still "My God it is Microsoft" and stock is based purely on the subjective nature of value branding. Until few people are willing to pay asking price, the value will remain. Even while record profits hit shareholder dividends a meager and growth is null. Nov to January was good. But year over year shows the stock losing value. The new Windows OS goes into Alpa and Beta testing later this year or next.
 
I think sometimes we get caught up in the console wars and lose site of MS' main goal as it has always been:

- Prevent Sony from controlling your living room and instead make sure that Xbox is the digital entertainment delivery platform of the future

That's where MS believes the true money lies.

They really only care about that one market - people who might buy Xbox Live. Everything they do: content strategy, marketing, hardware configurations etc... basically boils down to trying to win over this demographic.

That's why MS cares about Rockband, they care about online FPS&TPS, Fable, Forza community, downloadable content for Scene It! etc... but don't give a rats ass about Wii Sports people or anyone not interested in digital delivery of games, movies, and downloadable content.

Keep this in mind when discussing MS strategy.

Why in the world would they ever cut price aggressively to lose money to grab a PS3 casual gamer who doesn't care about Xbox Live?

People will of course wonder about the Core/Arcade system - MS sees these systems as entry points and plan to upsell hard drives and Live to these customers over time. Why do you think the Arcade comes with Live Arcade titles? MS hopes that these arcade customers will want to be connected to get more arcade games.

You are correct Sir.

Though I pointed it out in the Xbox shortages thread, while pointing out the reason for Xbox shortages was abuse of vendors like Wistron and Nvidia who wanted to leave. The fact is that where “Microsoft’s True Goals” are concerned, some of Xbox's biggest losses are in the Online Services Division. Something else I had pointed out and upset a lot of people as being ridiculous. But most of my detractors are simply ignorant and offended by this manner of writing. And have not done the research to see why I might say such a thing.

If the people who were so easily upset would check, they would see that most of the Xbox Marketplace and Xbox Live contracts and bills are being paid and signed through the MSN Game Zone and even Microsoft Game Studios as part of the Online Services Division. All data centers, such as those hosting Xbox Live are also accounted in their Online Services Business. Which is run by Kevin Johnson http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/kjohnson/default.mspx
Today the platform has offerings across digital media types and devices, including the PC, Web, mobile phones, gaming consoles, IPTV and Video-on-demand.

So, If it is not delivered via hardware, optical disk, hard drive etc. and it is found via an online connection, then it is a Live service. Which crosses the line into the Microsoft “Cloud” of software plus online services, Making it inherently part of Microsoft’s Online Services Business division. http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technol..._moves_further_into_the_cloud_cautiously.html

Even the product planning marketer for Entertainment and Devices duties are expressly to sell adservices from Microsoft Digital Ad Solutions that are hosted and ran by the Online Services Division. http://jobs.collegerecruiter.com/job.asp?id=15288926&aff=1F815876-F208-4EF0-9260-3258CA037177 So in this way Microsoft has cleverly hidden losses/investments involving the Xbox platform. (The PR firm contract for OSB also represents the Entertainment and Devises Division.)

Online Services Business. The Online Services Business (“OSB”) provides personal communications services, such as e-mail and instant messaging, and online information offerings such as Live Search and MSN portals and channels around the world. OSB also provides a variety of online services such as MSN Internet Access, MSN Premium Web Services, and OneCare. OSB manages many of its own properties, including home page, health, auto and shopping. In addition, OSB creates alliances with third parties, such as CareerBuilder.com, Expedia.com, Foxsports.com, Match.com, and MSNBC.com. OSB generates revenue primarily from online advertising, subscriptions and transactions of online paid services, as well as MSN narrowband Internet access subscriptions. In fiscal year 2006, OSB launched adCenter, our proprietary advertising platform, and has since transitioned the advertising business in the U.S. and certain international markets to adCenter. In fiscal year 2007, we launched new online initiatives, including Windows Live Search™ and Live.com in 54 international markets, Live Local Search in the U.S. and U.K., beta versions of MSN Soapbox (expansion of the MSN Video experience), Virtual Earth™ 3D, Windows Live Hotmail, and others.
http://www.microsoft.com/msft/reports/ar07/staticversion/10k_fr_bus_01.html
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.c...s_microsoft_make_ingame_advertising_deal.html

In the long run this isn't that big of a deal. It just illustrate the fact is that my detractors were wrong and their dismissive insults, complaints, etc are annoying. There is no readily proven line of division between the these two business divisions. The MTV & Netflix viewing and downloadable movie watching contract was paid for and signed by Online Services as being for both MSN Zone and Xbox Live. But you will notice it was only Xbox Live that uses this feature. And all the Xbox Live servers are also in this other division.

I hope this helped illustrate some points of their True goals that people haven't noticed. Thank you for reading.
FutureCTO
 
There's just no practical way for a corporation (or individual) to spend its way out of paying taxes.

Way late on the response I know, but I just had to chip in here. The above is patently false. A former employer of mine (who shall go unnamed) does not pay taxes EVER because right before the end of the year, he spends just enough money in "write-offs" (basically he buys electronic goods and either resells them under the table or uses them himself) so that he owes nothing.
 
Way late on the response I know, but I just had to chip in here. The above is patently false. A former employer of mine (who shall go unnamed) does not pay taxes EVER because right before the end of the year, he spends just enough money in "write-offs" (basically he buys electronic goods and either resells them under the table or uses them himself) so that he owes nothing.

translation, he cheats on his taxes...
 
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