Microsoft acquires ZeniMax Media (Bethesda, id Software, Arkane + 5 more) [2020-09-21, 2021-03-09]

[chris1515]

Sony and MS aren't that different in their acquisitions. Lionhead, Rare, Bungie, Mojang etc... all the way down to Bethesda had a history of making successful games before MS bought them and most of them are still making great games (Sea of Thieves, for example). People seem to forget that.

Sorry, I meant to include GoT in my list. So they have 8 key franchises over 25 years. ie. It's very tough to do.

MS has Gears, Halo, Forza, Sea of Thieves (15 million players), so they have some catching up to do, which is why they bought Minecraft, Doom, Wolfenstein, and Elder Scrolls in recent years.

I'm sure there are ways around them buying SE, and as much as I think they would be smart to do so, I doubt it's going to happen.

They are different because Sony buy studios after at least one successful collaboration. Microsoft can buy studios without working with them. This is why for example Insomniac games can release a launch title and the reason many first party exclusives Microsoft games will not arrive before 2022 and most of them before 2023, because studios needed to create new title for MS from scratch or they had some previous engagement to fullfill(Outer World, Wasteland 3...).

After Sony want to buy a studio or a publisher knowing how to do a good GAAS games and Sony is not competent at all for this and they don't care if they don't work with them because this is not the type of game they are releasing currently.

EDIT: I take the bet if any foreign company try to buy Square-Enix and a japanese company Sony or another one decide to bid too. The foreign company will lost.

Like Sony had no chance to buy Leyou Technologies if any chinese company was interested.

It they want to hurt Sony there is a bigger publisher much more expensive to buy this is Take Two with GTA and GTA Onlime. Out of the price much easier to buy.

 

[eastmen]

They are different because Sony buy studios after at least one successful collaboration. Microsoft can buy studios without working with them. This is why for example Insomniac games can release a launch title and the reason many first party exclusives Microsoft games will not arrive before 2022 and most of them before 2023, because studios needed to create new title for MS from scratch or they had some previous engagement to fullfill(Outer World, Wasteland 3...).

After Sony want to buy a studio or a publisher knowing how to do a good GAAS games and Sony is not competent at all for this and they don't care if they don't work with them because this is not the type of game they are releasing currently.

EDIT: I take the bet if any foreign company try to buy Square-Enix and a japanese company Sony or another one decide to bid too. The foreign company will lost.

Like Sony had no chance to buy Leyou Technologies if any chinese company was interested.

It they want to hurt Sony there is a bigger publisher much more expensive to buy this is Take Two with GTA and GTA Onlime. Out of the price much easier to buy.

Is it though ? Its a single game a generation if we are lucky. GTA 5 was 2013. When is GTA 6 ?

You also get

• BioShock series
• Borderlands series
• Civilization series
• Grand Theft Auto series
• Mafia series
• Max Payne series
• NBA 2K series
• Red Dead series
• WWE 2K series
• XCOM series

Bioshock isn't as popular after the last one. Borderlands is also now a meh series esp after the last one. Civ is always great. Mafia is kinda big . I think the remake sold well right ? . I loved max payne back in the day but is it still popular ? Red dead ? don't know that game. Xcom is another great series. Then you get the sports IP titles.

But this is what you get for almost 19B . I don't think this is worth while compared to the impact of Bethesda at 7.5B

 

[Silent_Buddha]

They are different because Sony buy studios after at least one successful collaboration. Microsoft can buy studios without working with them. This is why for example Insomniac games can release a launch title and the reason many first party exclusives Microsoft games will not arrive before 2022 and most of them before 2023, because studios needed to create new title for MS from scratch or they had some previous engagement to fullfill(Outer World, Wasteland 3...).

After Sony want to buy a studio or a publisher knowing how to do a good GAAS games and Sony is not competent at all for this and they don't care if they don't work with them because this is not the type of game they are releasing currently.

EDIT: I take the bet if any foreign company try to buy Square-Enix and a japanese company Sony or another one decide to bid too. The foreign company will lost.

Like Sony had no chance to buy Leyou Technologies if any chinese company was interested.

It they want to hurt Sony there is a bigger publisher much more expensive to buy this is Take Two with GTA and GTA Onlime. Out of the price much easier to buy.

While it is more difficult it isn't impossible nor "that" difficult (especially for US companies) as long as the Japanese government agrees with the purchase. One of the larger supermarket chains in Japan, Seiyu, for example is now 100% owned by Walmart. Ford likely could have taken full ownership of Mazda in the 2000's if they had wanted to, but the global recession instead saw them sell off most of their stake in the company.

It all comes down to

• Will a company survive without a sale in part or in whole?
• Does an interested buyer already have a minority stake in the company and has that partnership been beneficial to the Japanese company? This isn't required but it helps significantly.
  • In the above case Walmart already had a 37% stake in the company (2002) before they became majority owners (2005) and then 100% owners (2008)
• Does the Japanese government think an interested company will improve the state of the company or will they harm the company?
  • IE - do they believe a purchaser intends to dismantle the company, turn it into a shell company, or move the company out of the country?

Microsoft is on good terms with the Japanese government having invested heavily in Japan, so it's unlikely that them being a foreign company would be a hindrance if the Japanese company presented a plan for Microsoft showing interest.

US companies don't face the same hurdles WRT to ownership stakes in Japanese companies due to the close relations of the two countries. There are still barriers, of course, but they aren't the same as for other countries. Chinese companies and Korean companies OTOH face far greater hurdles due to historical animosity between those countries and Japan.

Back in 2013, 28% of Japanese companies were owned by foreign companies. While the original article is no longer available there's a link to it and a quote from it here.

https://www.quora.com/Can-non-Japanese-companies-buy-a-Japanese-company

Regards,
SB

 

[chris1515]

While it is more difficult it isn't impossible nor "that" difficult (especially for US companies) as long as the Japanese government agrees with the purchase. One of the larger supermarket chains in Japan, Seiyu, for example is now 100% owned by Walmart. Ford likely could have taken full ownership of Mazda in the 2000's if they had wanted to, but the global recession instead saw them sell off most of their stake in the company.

It all comes down to

• Will a company survive without a sale in part or in whole?
• Does an interested buyer already have a minority stake in the company and has that partnership been beneficial to the Japanese company? This isn't required but it helps significantly.
  • In the above case Walmart already had a 37% stake in the company (2002) before they became majority owners (2005) and then 100% owners (2008)
• Does the Japanese government think an interested company will improve the state of the company or will they harm the company?
  • IE - do they believe a purchaser intends to dismantle the company, turn it into a shell company, or move the company out of the country?

Microsoft is on good terms with the Japanese government having invested heavily in Japan, so it's unlikely that them being a foreign company would be a hindrance if the Japanese company presented a plan for Microsoft showing interest.

US companies don't face the same hurdles WRT to ownership stakes in Japanese companies due to the close relations of the two countries. There are still barriers, of course, but they aren't the same as for other countries. Chinese companies and Korean companies OTOH face far greater hurdles due to historical animosity between those countries and Japan.

Back in 2013, 28% of Japanese companies were owned by foreign companies. While the original article is no longer available there's a link to it and a quote from it here.

https://www.quora.com/Can-non-Japanese-companies-buy-a-Japanese-company

Regards,
SB

First Microsoft has not investment in Square-Enix and the law change since this article. Japanese were afraid many japanese company will be bought by chinese company and it is more difficult for foreign company to do it now. Like I said this is more expensive but there is western company to buy easier to do and money out of shareholder pressure is not a Microsoft problem: Take Two, Activision Blizzard or Electronic Arts or Ubi Soft are easier to buy.

If Microsoft buy Take two Sony is done. This is a much better fantasy than Square-Enix. GTA is THE exclusive title to have.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

If Microsoft buy Take two Sony is done. This is a much better fantasy than Square-Enix. GTA is THE exclusive title to have.

Maybe if they actually made a new GTA game. What has actually been confirmed on nextgen? Oh yeah: GTA V again.

 

[chris1515]

Maybe if they actually made a new GTA game. What are we getting on nextgen? Oh yeah: GTA V again.

They will do GTA 6. GTA online will probably be do a transition to the new engine. I can't imagine what Rockstar will be able to do with a SSD for the streaming I/O.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

First Microsoft has not investment in Square-Enix and the law change since this article. Japanese were afraid many japanese company will be bought by chinese company and it is more difficult for foreign company to do it now. Like I said this is more expensive but there is western company to buy easier to do and money out of shareholder pressure is not a Microsoft problem: Take Two, Activision Blizzard or Electronic Arts or Ubi Soft are easier to buy.

If Microsoft buy Take two Sony is done. This is a much better fantasy than Square-Enix. GTA is THE exclusive title to have.

Microsoft isn't a Chinese company so bringing Chinese companies into this isn't relevant.

While having an existing minority stake in a company helps, it isn't a requirement.

Because of a combination of Japan-US relations and Microsoft's continued investment in Japan (in Japan not in X company) they have a lower barrier WRT potentially buying a majority stake in a Japanese company as the Japanese government looks favorably upon Microsoft.

Square Enix isn't going to get the same protections from the government as say, Sony, as Sony is a large conglomerate that includes investments in the Japanese Financial sector. There's more involved with protecting a company like Sony than a company like Square-Enix.

If I were MS though, I wouldn't buy Square-Enix Eidos. Sega is a much more attractive purchase target for MS due to it's PC game development studios as well as it's extremely influential Japanese publishing arm Atlus.

Regards,
SB

 

[chris1515]

Microsoft isn't a Chinese company so bringing Chinese companies into this isn't relevant.

While having an existing minority stake in a company helps, it isn't a requirement.

Because of a combination of Japan-US relations and Microsoft's continued investment in Japan (in Japan not in X company) they have a lower barrier WRT potentially buying a majority stake in a Japanese company.

Regards,
SB

We will see if Microsoft or Sony will buy Square-Enix I doubt it. I think they will be 3rd party at the end of the generation. Again the law is the same for all. They did not do a special law for chinese company.

Will Microsoft buy another studio or pubisher? This is possible maybe one the four I talk about maybe CdProjekt.

After Amazon or Google or maybe Apple will buy some publisher too.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

They will do GTA 6. GTA online will probably be do a transition to the new engine. I can't imagine what Rockstar will be able to do with a SSD for the streaming I/O.

You have more faith in Rockstar than me. In PS2's generation we had three new 3D GTA games, in PS3's generation we had two new 3D GTA games and Red Dead Redemption, in PS4's generation we had GTA V (again) and Red Dead Redemption 2. I think Rockstar's publishers are worried about turnover over the golden apple cart that is GTA V online micro-transactions. At least not until they have a GTA 6 online. I could well believe they'll release GTA 6 without any single-player content at all.

 

[chris1515]

You have more faith in Rockstar than me. In PS2's generation we had three new 3D GTA games, in PS3's generation we had two new 3D GTA games and Red Dead Redemption, in PS4's generation we had GTA V (again) and Red Dead Redemption 2. I think Rockstar's publishers are worried about turnover over the golden apple cart that is GTA V online micro-transactions. At least not until they have a GTA 6 online. I could well believe they'll release GTA 6 without any single-player content at all.

They said they can take the time they want because GTA online or Red Dead online change how the business is working. Another problem was maybe the fact than the last gen was not a big progress in I/O technology and CPU part after I don't expect it before 2023/2024. They want to release with a bigger install base.

With next gen consoles, they can make the next GTA shine. I don't think we will see more than one or maybe two Rockstar games next generation.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Again the law is the same for all. They did not do a special law for chinese company.

It's a difference between how a law is worded and how a law is applied.

The Japanese government applies the laws regarding foreign entities based on how the government views relations with those countries regardless of how the law is written.

So, while on paper the law applies equally to all countries, in practice it is applied differently due to a variety of factors that involve what foreign country a company is based in as well as how that foreign company has operated within the country of Japan.

For example, Yahoo used to get extremely favorable concessions from the Japanese government in the 2000's because the government viewed it favorably. This gave it a significant competitive advantage in Japan compared to Google as it was able to more easily bypass some government restrictions and thus made it easier for them to negotiate with Japanese corporations who look to the government for guidance. If the government approves of you, you'll have an easier time negotiating with Japanese companies, if the government doesn't, then you'll have a much harder time.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The Japanese government applies the laws regarding foreign entities based on how the government views relations with those countries regardless of how the law is written.

I think this is true for most countries. Law is toothless without enforcement and for many countries, enforcement of the law is more a political decision than it is an impartial judicial one.

 

[PSman1700]

Aside from buying up studios, just have the best versions of games on your platform. Starting with cp2077, thats already great PR if every article out there that implies your console is having the best version.
Probably more worth then trying to secure big studios like rockstar.

 

[Jay]

Aside from buying up studios, just have the best versions of games on your platform. Starting with cp2077, thats already great PR if every article out there that implies your console is having the best version.
Probably more worth then trying to secure big studios like rockstar.

Best version has to be a big difference for it to actually matter to most people, even then they probably will put up with it.

 

[BRiT]

I dont think best version available applies as much as many think because not everyone is playing on PCs.

 

[chris1515]

I dont think best version available applies as much as many think because not everyone is playing on PCs.

Build a powerful gaming PC is more expensive and most people have a non gaming PC. People prefer buy a 399/499 PS5 or a 299/499 Xbox.

Long term PC is cheaper you only need to change some of the PC part, the game are often cheaper and the online is free but people see the first expense and changing PC part is less convenient too.

On consoles I think power difference is less important than tons of other things like exclusives games, ecosystem, future backward compatibility with rise of digital sales, where your friend are playing too(lend game between friend, play together with some of the games without crossplay...), services too(Gamepass...).

After if PS5 had the same power than Xbox Series S at 399 dollars and the Xbox Series X was the same console at 499, it will matter. This is always a matter of power difference if the difference was the same than PS2 and the first Xbox with console releasing at the same time and better brand recognition on Xbox side due to the fact this is not the first console, Sony would be in a shitty situation.

 

[Silenti]

In honor of the fact I am rather insane, and since everyone is having so much fun speculating and debating....
Let's see. MS has been trying to get into Hollywood and television for years. They have a cloud service they would like people to use. They have lots of studios and some of those studios are undergoing serious expansion. Could always use more, but IP is probably more/ at least as important now. So who has some really nice, move the needle IP and a young streaming service......

You want a move that is balls in the wheelbarrow pic esque? Stock and cash deal -> go get Disney. I don't care if it is termed buying, acquisition, merging or absorbing. The investment could well pay for itself just as things are running now. You get Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar, Fox, Walt Disney, ABC, FX, A&E, ESPN, Lifetime, History Channel, National Geopraphic, an in with Hulu, and more. You want presence around the world.....

Yes, this would rival Vodafone-Mannesmann, Pfizer-Warner-Lambert, AOL-Time Warner, Verizon-Vodafone, etc. Might even be the biggest in history under the "acquisition" category. But damn, what you would get in return......

Just a crazy thought to have some fun with during a slow newsweek and watching my motherboard die. Ugh.

 

[eastmen]

In honor of the fact I am rather insane, and since everyone is having so much fun speculating and debating....
Let's see. MS has been trying to get into Hollywood and television for years. They have a cloud service they would like people to use. They have lots of studios and some of those studios are undergoing serious expansion. Could always use more, but IP is probably more/ at least as important now. So who has some really nice, move the needle IP and a young streaming service......

You want a move that is balls in the wheelbarrow pic esque? Stock and cash deal -> go get Disney. I don't care if it is termed buying, acquisition, merging or absorbing. The investment could well pay for itself just as things are running now. You get Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar, Fox, Walt Disney, ABC, FX, A&E, ESPN, Lifetime, History Channel, National Geopraphic, an in with Hulu, and more. You want presence around the world.....

Yes, this would rival Vodafone-Mannesmann, Pfizer-Warner-Lambert, AOL-Time Warner, Verizon-Vodafone, etc. Might even be the biggest in history under the "acquisition" category. But damn, what you would get in return......

Just a crazy thought to have some fun with during a slow newsweek and watching my motherboard die. Ugh.

Isn't disney's market cap 225b ?

That be a huge jump and most of Disney's business is dependent on in person sales like theme parks and movies.

I guess they could intergrate Disney plus into xcloud and yes the properties are pretty big and they get movie studios and um the parks. But i don't see it as what they want.

 

[fehu]

Wait wait wait wait
I just realized that Fallout and Wasteland are being reunited under the same production

 

[Silenti]

Isn't disney's market cap 225b ?

That be a huge jump and most of Disney's business is dependent on in person sales like theme parks and movies.

I guess they could intergrate Disney plus into xcloud and yes the properties are pretty big and they get movie studios and um the parks. But i don't see it as what they want.

It is around that 225B mark. Which would make it right around the largest in history. But smaller companies than MS hauled in those huge acquisitions.

It really is just crazy spit balling on my part. I just asked if I was MS, what could I do that would move the needle and have a high potential to pay for itself. What IP's would be big? Just a thought but -> the parks and movies can continue as they are. No reason to think they would not. Same with the likes of ABC and ESPN. Though I think ESPN is a bit of a drag on the profit margin right now. Works pretty well and they are self-run. You don't reorganize it, just let it do its thing. MS gets the rights to some major game IP - Star Wars and Marvel alone and what that could mean. Assuming, of course, you can make good games from them. You would have the biggest Sci-Fi property and the biggest comic book property under your roof. Cross-marketing possibilities would be nice. Toys? A "Cars" or "Toy Story" set of games, exclusive to Xbox..... That would get em' started young. Tie it straight into Minecraft. A commercial for one becomes a commercial for all. Mindshare could be huge. MS has tried, and utterly failed really, to get into video production. Just like some of their game studio acquisition failures. If you cannot beat them... buy them?

As you said, Disney+ goes Xcloud/ Azure, and it is just getting started. MS has tried on multiple occasions to get Halo and some other titles their own TV or movie integrations. Just think of the reach around the world that Disney offers. Unless the company is somehow over-valued, buying it could well just straight pay for itself. If you play your cards right with all the Disney and Fox properties plus Marvel and Star Wars..... You would even be able to roll Disney+ and GamePass together in various ways.

Really, just a crazy thought I gamed out. More a matter of "what would it mean if?" than any real attempt to predict a possibility. I cannot think of something that would move the needle more. Not that you could do from a legal standpoint anyway. Just a fun thought.