Zenimax (Bethesda) acquires id software (holy cow)

[Grall]

I am hoping this will make id/JC wake up from their self placed pedestal so that they realize they cannot take "game consoles" lightly when so many other dev teams have made so much progress in tech and profits and being present in gamers minds.

Ever since the current gen of consoles were announced, JC has been looking down his nose at them. Even now that they're branching out to take consoles seriously it's been done very reluctantly; or that's my impression anyway. 'I wish we didn't have to do this...', kind of.

Anyway, my first reaction to this was, "what a stupid move, they're losing their freedom and independence!" Then reading on a bit I think I start to see the significance of this. For starters, it seems they no longer actually enjoy their independence... Also, Bethesda is a very highly regarded studio, after all. They've got a big focus on quality and attention to detail, and as JC points out, there's no product overlap.

So on one hand you're merging with a premier gamemaker, and on the other you bring in your own style of games in addition to what's already there... Hurm, I'm no expert on this stuff, but maybe it could actually be a win-win situation?

If it lets id make more cool games faster, then it definitely is. I've always enjoyed their games (except the original Quake, which I didn't feel had any personality), but it takes SO LONG for them to come out. They've published like ONE game this entire century so far that wasn't developed by/with help from some other studio, that's really depressing... So if they can expand while still retaining the id flavor...great. Hopefully they won't implode, like Rare did after the buyout. Then again, Rare was already far gone already by then in its descending trend, so maybe it's comparing apples and oranges here.

So...good luck to them for the future!

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I wonder how EA feel about Rage now. Any sequels will be published by ZeniMax so what's EA's drive to go the extra mile with it? Feed what could possibly be a trilogy of games that will make ZeniId tons of cash?

That was one of the points for doing the deal. Why publish with someone like EA who have their own developer studios developing their own IP and making more money for themselves, in direct competition with ID's products? As publishers do more of their in-house development, they will be more interested in support their in-house teams rather than an independent ID that makes them less profit.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

So on one hand you're merging with a premier gamemaker, and on the other you bring in your own style of games in addition to what's already there... Hurm, I'm no expert on this stuff, but maybe it could actually be a win-win situation?

If you read more of the details, it really doesn't sound like a merger. ID will still be independent, and will be working on different styles of games. Yes, the same parent company that owns Bethseda will also own ID, but ID is not merging with Bethsoft.

It sounds like ID wanted to expand, but also wanted a partner company that could make games and use the ID IP whilst ID themselves are continuing to do their own thing. This way, ID gets to expand their capabilities, without really having to change what they are now, or deal with that expansion directly.

 

[Richard]

That was one of the points for doing the deal. Why publish with someone like EA who have their own developer studios developing their own IP and making more money for themselves, in direct competition with ID's products? As publishers do more of their in-house development, they will be more interested in support their in-house teams rather than an independent ID that makes them less profit.

Yes, but my point was that in the meantime Rage is being published by EA which has no interest in making a good job at it because: a) no chance of getting another game publishing deal like they were talking about when Rage was announced as an EA game and b) any Rage sequel will now be published by ZeniMax so if Rage is a success and a new franchise is born EA will have directly helped a competitor.

I'm sure EA's publishing agreement with id has contractual obligations and whatnot but it's pretty much certain EA will now be dialing back their marketing/etc. efforts to the bare minimum stipulated by the contract instead of going beyond it to woo id into signing DOOM 4 as well.

What I'm wondering is why didn't id wait until Rage was out before making this deal? My pet theory is that this deal is as much about liquidity as it is about the reasons mentioned (not competing with publisher, etc.).

 

[Grall]

IYes, the same parent company that owns Bethseda will also own ID, but ID is not merging with Bethsoft.

Yes, I did read that, but it simplifies things just talking about bethsoft and its parent as one single entity - after all, they are, if you just overlook some corporate details...

If entity X which also wholly owns entity Y wholly (or so I assume) buys out entity Z, then Y and Z practically become the same thing. It's just internal organizations at X that keep them separate entities...or that's how I see it anyway. Not that it really matters though as long as id puts out some kickass shooters!

 

[obonicus]

If you read more of the details, it really doesn't sound like a merger. ID will still be independent, and will be working on different styles of games. Yes, the same parent company that owns Bethseda will also own ID, but ID is not merging with Bethsoft.

As far as I understand, Bethesda is also becoming the Zenimax label for the higher-budget, more upscale games. There was a Bethesda event in London a month or two ago that was basically Bethesda announcing they were publishing games, like WET and whatever that Mickey Rourke game is.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Yes, but my point was that in the meantime Rage is being published by EA which has no interest in making a good job at it because: a) no chance of getting another game publishing deal like they were talking about when Rage was announced as an EA game and b) any Rage sequel will now be published by ZeniMax so if Rage is a success and a new franchise is born EA will have directly helped a competitor.

I'm sure EA's publishing agreement with id has contractual obligations and whatnot but it's pretty much certain EA will now be dialing back their marketing/etc. efforts to the bare minimum stipulated by the contract instead of going beyond it to woo id into signing DOOM 4 as well.

At the end of the day, any ID game is going to sell well. If EA takes shortcuts, they will hurt themselves. It may be possible that this game was a one shot deal, and the next one would have been up for grabs with any other publisher, so EA isn't any any different spot that it was in before.

I'm pretty sure EA has the sense to make the best it can out of the next ID game to maximise it's profits, and then that's it for their publishing deal with ID.

 

[Neb]

What a surprise!

Oblivion 2 with megatexture a reality?

 

[TheChefO]

What a surprise!

Oblivion 2 with megatexture a reality?

....and that's what it's all about.

(...and Fallout 4 )

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Ever since the current gen of consoles were announced, JC has been looking down his nose at them. Even now that they're branching out to take consoles seriously it's been done very reluctantly; or that's my impression anyway. 'I wish we didn't have to do this...', kind of.

Their genre, the FPS, wasn't much of a business on consoles until Halo (okay, there was Goldeneye and Perfect Dark as well, I know). They reacted by releasing Doom3 on the Xbox, and as soon as they had the chance they've built up what seems to be one of the best multiplatform engines around. I don't really agree with you here, and every dev comment here on B3D seems to support Carmack's claims about how frustrating this new approach of supporting 4 platforms can be.

 

[Scott_Arm]

The weird thing is id says the situation is ideal because there is no overlap between their business and Bethesda's. Is that really true? I mean, they're both making first person action titles, but Bethesda has a solid RPG layer on top. Is Fallout 3 really that different from something id would make? If anything, when I read the news, the first thing that popped into my mind was how perfect a partnership between the two could be.

 

[assen]

The weird thing is id says the situation is ideal because there is no overlap between their business and Bethesda's. Is that really true? I mean, they're both making first person action titles, but Bethesda has a solid RPG layer on top. Is Fallout 3 really that different from something id would make? If anything, when I read the news, the first thing that popped into my mind was how perfect a partnership between the two could be.

The first person view doesn't make Fallout 3 and Doom 4 more similar, than, say, the 2d sprite side-view makes Super Mario and Street Fighter similar. It's just one of the ways to present a game to the player, not a genre.

 

[T.B.]

The first person view doesn't make Fallout 3 and Doom 4 more similar, than, say, the 2d sprite side-view makes Super Mario and Street Fighter similar.

The amount of possible technology sharing does, however. Engine tech is a large part of your foundation, much more for 3D titles than for 2D titles. And if Fallout 3 had a more polished shooting mechanic, it could have been a really nice shooter.
I hope that this is something we are going to see: A Bethesda game that does the first-person or third-person right. At least for first person, iD is really, really good at making it feel satisfying and solid.

 

[ban25]

What I'm wondering is why didn't id wait until Rage was out before making this deal? My pet theory is that this deal is as much about liquidity as it is about the reasons mentioned (not competing with publisher, etc.).

A good observation there. Obviously, they need to be able to ramp up their next project as Rage nears completion and given that Id has self-financed a lot of their titles, they are probably interested in a partner who can help them get the ball rolling faster on the next game.

 

[assen]

The amount of possible technology sharing does, however. Engine tech is a large part of your foundation, much more for 3D titles than for 2D titles. And if Fallout 3 had a more polished shooting mechanic, it could have been a really nice shooter.

Yes, of course; in that sense, id and Bethesda have a lot to share, and are NOT competitors - as Scott_Arm was implying when he doubted the comment that they have no overlap.

id and Bethesda both doing first person games - good technologically

id and Bethesda both doing similar games for the similar audiences - not good in a business sense.

 

[obonicus]

A good observation there. Obviously, they need to be able to ramp up their next project as Rage nears completion and given that Id has self-financed a lot of their titles, they are probably interested in a partner who can help them get the ball rolling faster on the next game.

Actually, there's another interview on this, and Carmack says that while id was growing, they were having trouble growing at the speed they'd like -- Zenimax helped accelerate things and they'd be able to field 3 teams.

Here:

IG: So were there any other players for id software, or was ZeniMax the only serious bidder?

JC: Throughout our entire history, we've had an endless stream of buyout offers, none of which we followed up on for a variety of reasons. We did have a long term plan for expanding out, but the ZeniMax deal came a long and we decided this is what we wanted to do to boost our plan in the short term.

We had all of these tentative steps to growth in building a third team. We were a profitably private company, but we were growing cautiously and certainly not at the rate of some of the larger studios out there. With Zenimax, we can grow out more aggressively. We have two teams now and we'll develop out a third team in relatively short order. We think that three studios is the maximum; we can keep a handle on that number. We don't want to potentially get four and five studios and get unmanageably large.

 

[StefanS]

New interview with with Carmack, ZeniMax chief executive Robert Altman, and id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead.

Read here

 

[idsn6]

VB: Will Doom Resurrection be out on the iPhone soon?
JC: It was submitted today. The Apple process is still opaque for us. They owe us one for what happened at the keynote.

I wonder which keynote he means. Maybe the Rage premiere at WWDC '07?
Or, given the timing of Doom Resurrection's reveal, it may have been meant to be showcased at WWDC '09 and wasn't.

 

[obonicus]

From Stefan's article, I like this image:

I see an obelisk. Egyptian-themed casinos confirmed for Fallout Las Vegas?

 

[liolio]

nother Carmack interview about this deal is up on Gamasutra (Between I like this site more and more).