MercuryNews: A Chat With Phil Harrison

[Powderkeg]

Well Harrison has played the game, you not . If he`s saying it`s better might be PR or it might be his honest opinion. But you cannot comment on that before having played the game.

Using the same logic you can't say I'm wrong until you've played both it and every other game available on every system.

 

[Powderkeg]

Stop arguing with Powderkeg. Now. Obviously he is beyond all of us and he doesn't need to actually experience something to compare it with something else. He alone holds the power to see who is RIGHT and who is WRONG. He is above all.

His greatness makes it impossible for him to be wrong.

On a more serious note, why are we still debating technicalities of a PR statement?

This is a classic case of "When you know you are wrong, attack the speaker rather than his point."

I see it in politics all of the time. You wouldn't be a Bush supporter, would you?

 

[mckmas8808]

A response like this was not needed. Why not post what Resistance brings original to the genre to counter his claims?

Because some statements are too laughable to respond seriously to. But your post was good so I'll answer. The weapons in themselves are for different as far as your everyday FPS is concerned. Dual-weilding with having the option of indiviually moving and shooting both of the guns is very cool.

Shooting rockets and supending them in mid air and controlling where they land in SP and MP games in very different than most FPS games. This rocket launcher brings a different strategy than most games.

How many FPS games have you played where you can sit behind a rock a shoot about 10 bullets in space about 20 feet away from you to your right and then pop up from around the rock and run to your left, tag the enemy and have those 10 bullets follow that target that you were initally were hiddening from?

Not many and that's one of the things that makes Resistence cool. It's bring newer weapons types to a FPS genre that could use a little changing in that front. That's why I'm getting the HL2 pack even though I've never played any of the games before.

Now Gears of War is doing some really neat things too, but Laa-Yosh of course always chosing that platform and its games and discredits most things PS3 so no surprise. It's okay to admit when something on another platform is doing something great. :smile:

 

[Hardknock]

Because some statements are too laughable to respond seriously to. But your post was good so I'll answer. The weapons in themselves are for different as far as your everyday FPS is concerned. Dual-weilding with having the option of indiviually moving and shooting both of the guns is very cool.

Shooting rockets and supending them in mid air and controlling where they land in SP and MP games in very different than most FPS games. This rocket launcher brings a different strategy than most games.

Dual-weilding has been done since Halo 2(and even before that I'm sure?). Independent weapon control was in PDZ. Controlling Rockets was in PDZ (I'm sure some other games had this before aswell).

How many FPS games have you played where you can sit behind a rock a shoot about 10 bullets in space about 20 feet away from you to your right and then pop up from around the rock and run to your left, tag the enemy and have those 10 bullets follow that target that you were initally were hiddening from?

Not many and that's one of the things that makes Resistence cool. It's bring newer weapons types to a FPS genre that could use a little changing in that front. That's why I'm getting the HL2 pack even though I've never played any of the games before.

Enemy seeking weapons are not new (Halo had the needler). Tagging enemies is the one new thing. Which is very cool. But I wouldn't go so far as to say they are bringing something completely new to the genre because of one weapon.

 

[macabre]

Using the same logic you can't say I'm wrong until you've played both it and every other game available on every system.

Why should I not believe the person more who has played the game ? Cause he is a Sony rep. ?
Yeah I better believe you instead. I saw you like Irrationals games, at least you have some good taste - too bad your taste is bound to specific platforms and clouded by hate.

 

[AzBat]

Enemy seeking weapons are not new (Halo had the needler). Tagging enemies is the one new thing. Which is very cool. But I wouldn't go so far as to say they are bringing something completely new to the genre because of one weapon.

Agreed. More like an evolution of the genre. Halo3 will probably bring just as much evolution to the genre when it ships, but I doubt I will ever claim it will bring something completely new to the genre either.

BTW, Battlezone on the PC had a tagging weapon called the "Automated Targeting Gun (TAG Cannon)" and that came out in 1998. It was my favorite weapon ever in multiplayer gaming.

Tommy McClain

 

[mckmas8808]

Agreed. More like an evolution of the genre. Halo3 will probably bring just as much evolution to the genre when it ships, but I doubt I will ever claim it will bring something completely new to the genre either.

BTW, Battlezone on the PC had a tagging weapon called the "Automated Targeting Gun (TAG Cannon)" and that came out in 1998. It was my favorite weapon ever in multiplayer gaming.

Tommy McClain

There's nothing new under the sun, it's not about what you do but how it's done. [/NaS] Yes he's my favorite rapper.

My point is so why would a game like Gears of War be bring all this new stuff to it's genre like Laa-Yosh was saying but Resistence is just a plain old jane everyday FPS? Obviously almost everything in life has been done before in someway or another.

 

[AzBat]

There's nothing new under the sun, it's not about what you do but how it's done. [/NaS] Yes he's my favorite rapper.

My point is so why would a game like Gears of War be bring all this new stuff to it's genre like Laa-Yosh was saying but Resistence is just a plain old jane everyday FPS? Obviously almost everything in life has been done before in someway or another.

I can't speak for Laa-Yosh, but I understand his comment to be that Gear of War IS a new genre: a third person cover shooter. Some people of late have compared it as such: "stop-and-pop" vs "run-and-gun". By being a third person shooter and the use of cover to survive, there's potential for more innovation versus a standard FPS. I can appreciate that perspective. From what video I've seen of each game I can understand why he might have to come to that conclusion. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I am excited about trying something new and different. GOW might seem like that initially, but who knows till you try them?

Tommy McClain

 

[Sis]

I can't speak for Laa-Yosh, but I understand his comment to be that Gear of War IS a new genre: a third person cover shooter. Some people of late have compared it as such: "stop-and-pop" vs "run-and-gun". By being a third person shooter and the use of cover to survive, there's potential for more innovation versus a standard FPS. I can appreciate that perspective. From what video I've seen of each game I can understand why he might have to come to that conclusion. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I am excited about trying something new and different. GOW might seem like that initially, but who knows till you try them?

Tommy McClain

Sure, there's the stop-and-pop gameplay, but I also think Gears has a more unique stylistic direction, primarily revolving around over the top, visceral action. This is seen in the art direction and in certain gameplay elements (the curb stomp, the chainsaw).

When I look at Resistence, I honestly see a fairly generic shooter. That said, I have a lot of faith in that development team (the R&C games are my all-time favorite(s) and one of only a handful that I play to the end), so even though what I've seen seems generic, I believe the final game will be a worthy entry in the FPS genre.

 

[Inane_Dork]

If Resistance has a great storyline, that would be its primary quality point, IMO. The FPS genre is too full of good ideas and good implementations to really beat everyone else with guns, enemy AI, etc. A compelling story was a huge part of what set Halo aside from other FPS games, and it can work in Resistance's favor too.

 

[mckmas8808]

I can't speak for Laa-Yosh, but I understand his comment to be that Gear of War IS a new genre: a third person cover shooter. Some people of late have compared it as such: "stop-and-pop" vs "run-and-gun". By being a third person shooter and the use of cover to survive, there's potential for more innovation versus a standard FPS. I can appreciate that perspective. From what video I've seen of each game I can understand why he might have to come to that conclusion. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I am excited about trying something new and different. GOW might seem like that initially, but who knows till you try them?

Tommy McClain

NOWAY will I agree with that.

Kill Switch did exactly what you just said about Gears of War.

But at the end of the day ANYBODY saying that Gears of War and Resistence are generic games just no NOTHING about the game in question. Neither one of these games are generic. Neither one of these games just kinda roll the ball out there with the same general concepts of other games just with new paint.

If you really know Resistence or if you really know Gears of War I'm sure you know that they are breaths of fresh air.

 

[rounin]

So third person cover shooter is a genre now? And a new one at that ?

Meet kill.switch from 2003.

What separates kill.switch from other uncomplicated gun-fests, however, is the importance of taking cover. Though we thought it to be somewhat gimmicky at first, it's the act of taking cover that saves your hide more than anything else. Hiding behind boxes, crouching below sofas, and peeking around walls are key to advancing your missions....

EDIT: ok. so mckmass was faster.

 

[Sis]

So third person cover shooter is a genre now? And a new one at that ?

Meet kill.switch from 2003.

And out come the kill.switch comments...

The fact that there's only been one game of this style seems lost on most who throw this out. Compare this to how many strafing-style FPS shooters that Resistence is modelled after?

 

[AzBat]

Mckmas8808 and Rounin,

Here's what Laa-Yosh said:

Gears at least tries to define a new genre.

for which I say:

I can't speak for Laa-Yosh, but I understand his comment to be that Gear of War IS a new genre: a third person cover shooter.

He said "new genre", not me. And I understand that there was another game before it. Kind of why I said "I'm not sure I agree with it." However, I don't think one or two games make a genre either. Though before Wolfenstein 3D and Doom there was Hovertank 3D and Catacomb 3D. So, there's no telling what will happen after GoW is released.

Tommy McClain

 

[London Geezer]

Meh... The only "new" thing about Resistance that i can see is the weapons. Some of them are really cool, and i'm sure we haven't seen them all. Looking at Insomniac history, they can really come up with some crazy weapons (Ratchet & Clank games), and if they use their imagination for Reistance the same way they did for R&C, it will be fun.

Even then, that's not exactly "new", the dynamic of the game will be the same as any FPS ever released. Run shoot strafe shoot shoot run run. 40-player online is not "new", it's "more".

With GOW we have the "cover" thing, and the game is generally presented in a different, more over the top way. Game dynamics have been done before, and presentation-wise, i don't think that should be a factor in the discussion we're having, which is about "new" game genres.

Personally, i wouldn't argue over what game has more "new" stuff with these two examples. Anyone looking for something "new" is seriously looking in the wrong shelf.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

However, I don't think one or two games make a genre either. Though before Wolfenstein 3D and Doom there was Hovertank 3D and Catacomb 3D. So, there's no telling what will happen after GoW is released.

One game makes a genre. eg. Populous created the God genre. If there were no other God games, the genre would still exist to accomodate the classification of Populous.

I know squat of diddly about shooters, but from what's said in this thread (thanks Hardknock for getting debate out of mckmass - slap hand mckmass for responding in a way that wasn't intelligent debate!), I don't see that GeoW is defining a new genre. The cover and shoot has been done before. Perhaps this is the first title to really take the limelight and present that to the masses due to it's pre-release popularity, but I can't see that GeoW is doing anything conceptually that hasn't been done before. Personally I like the tactical game idea, taking cover and using that. I have seen a bit of taking-cover gameplay from R:FoM though too (although the inclusion of a gun that shoots through walls totally negates that!) especially taking cover and shooting with fancy weapons to get around it.

I'm not really sure that either can be classed as revolutionary or genric. Shooters are all pretty samey, just varying the amount of cover and terrain and weapons and number of combatants in the area. What sets them apart is execution - the choice of weapons; the layout of terrain and cover; the way the NPCs operate; the styling and story. Off the top of my head, the only thing I can see as being revolutionary in shooters is in that Portal game, but wasn't that too was done before Portal?!

 

[Farid]

Thread Locked

I think that we'll ban PR threads if things continue to follow this scheme.

The topic was a about an uninteresting PR talk interview, with no new information whatsoever but still, and for some reason the discussion turned into a duel between Gears of War and Resistance:FoM (AKA a X360 VS PS3 debate via proxy), discussion comprised of some strange tentatives of rationalisation of what is a new genre, what game tries to bring something new to the table...