MazingerDUDE
Regular
Memory & Texture Mapping (types/formats/techniques/res) *Spin-off*
- Thread starter Nesh
- Start date
The funniest part is that the 3 Crysis shots posted by LV was from the same location spot at the map edge as evident by the radar!
The Uncharted ones not, actually I think 2 of them where promo shots...MazingerDUDE
Regular
The funniest part is that the 3 Crysis shots posted by LV was from the same location spot at the map edge as evident by the radar!
then perhaps you should check out the shots from the real game
Like this?
This is a bug. Or better, say, limitation.
As far as I can see they multiply texture samples based on normal.z component.
If the normal is not flat enough they sample once, and it seems be the case on these rocks.
then perhaps you should check out the shots from the real game
http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/UCG1.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/UCG2.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/UCG3.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/UCG4.jpg
*yawn*
Downsampled offscreen HQ images with third person view camera creating a larger distance to textures.... even Gears of War or other presents as detailed textures in that resolution and distance + third person camera. IMO downsampled images are only used to hide flaws. Not good for analyzing.
Anyways what I was talking about the shadows and how they affet the texture mapping detail, really good illustration.
This image illustrates the difference shadows does to the mapping perception
Last edited by a moderator:
MazingerDUDE
Regular
Alright, I stretched the image to reveal the flaws
Tell me if you see one
BTW IMO, your angled ground shot is not good for analyzing either especially in an AF low game like Uncharted
Alright, I stretched the image to reveal the flaws
Tell me if you see one
http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/UCG2BIG.jpg
Well now you have made it look blurry and if you where closer to the textures with the camera it would look "gibberish" (based on your upsized image!). Why not give a screenshot of the texture areas shown in your screenshots upclose in a fullsize ss?
BTW IMO, your angled ground shot is not good for analyzing either especially in an AF low game like Uncharted
The ground doesnt mather in my comment about shadows covering mapping talk (which was the point for one game atleast). You provide the same scene in different angle in the Uncharted thread, and you do have the game right?
This thread is extremely stupid, not least because of (shock-horror-surprise) Crysis talk in the console forum about console games texturing with console RAM.
There are three options available for texturing :
1) Image textures, possibly multilayered, which will repeat but can be made to measure for the RAM available, and are fast.
2) Procedural textures, infinitely variable but very slow to produce in realtime without buffering, and if you're creating a texture on the fly, you're still limited to texture RAM availability.
3) Megatexturing, giving unique textures everywhere, but it's new tech and no-one's released anything using it yet.
So all games being compared here (on consoles. PC games are irrelevant here - you can always throw more VRAM at the problem with PCs - so please stop linking to PC pics and comparing them to console games...) are basically doing the same thing - using texture images.
So then you have how the textures are used. There will be repetition. That's unavoidable, unless you have so few surfaces in RAM they can all be given a unique texture. In this respect we can compare titles based on number of textures present, streaming tech used to access more textures per territory, and application of textures to create the material look desired while trying to elliminate repetition.
The measure of success has to be how well the developers and artists manage to capture their look for their scenery without jarring limits like low-resolution textures or serious repetition. There are a number of titles respected for their texturing quality. Off the top of my head, GoW and Uncharted, and KZ2 is looking pretty fantastic. People have raised Bioshock as an example, and I'm sure there are more (console games. Not PC games. Just for those a bit slow on the uptake).
Gears was a landmark title, and it's texture fidelity has remained a high target. Comparing it to other titles, it has excellent resolution. However, it's repetition could be very apparent. This pic shows cloned surfaces/objects. To Uncharted's credit, the application of textures has reduced the appearnace of the object and texture repetition so it's less noticeable. Yes, it's still there, it always will be with these very limited RAM amounts, shared with the rest of the game engine (and more complex engine will need to scale back textures to suit). But I think ND did an excellent job in balancing their texture budget to capture the feel and variety of surfaces. A quick spot of image Googling shows Bioshock isn't using texture blending as Uncharted does, and has plenty of surface and object cloning. MGS4 was a real hodgepodge, ranging was the divine to the ridiculous in texturing. LBP has greatfidelity but huge amounts of repetition to boot, with basically single texture bundles (diffuse, normal, etc.) per 'tile' repeated across the surface. Banjo Threeie has some great fidelity and diversification across the same, but the same clear repeating of tiles.
What console games are managing to create an impressive environment without notable repetition? Are there any that achieve incredible environmental scope and diversification?
There are three options available for texturing :
1) Image textures, possibly multilayered, which will repeat but can be made to measure for the RAM available, and are fast.
2) Procedural textures, infinitely variable but very slow to produce in realtime without buffering, and if you're creating a texture on the fly, you're still limited to texture RAM availability.
3) Megatexturing, giving unique textures everywhere, but it's new tech and no-one's released anything using it yet.
So all games being compared here (on consoles. PC games are irrelevant here - you can always throw more VRAM at the problem with PCs - so please stop linking to PC pics and comparing them to console games...) are basically doing the same thing - using texture images.
So then you have how the textures are used. There will be repetition. That's unavoidable, unless you have so few surfaces in RAM they can all be given a unique texture. In this respect we can compare titles based on number of textures present, streaming tech used to access more textures per territory, and application of textures to create the material look desired while trying to elliminate repetition.
The measure of success has to be how well the developers and artists manage to capture their look for their scenery without jarring limits like low-resolution textures or serious repetition. There are a number of titles respected for their texturing quality. Off the top of my head, GoW and Uncharted, and KZ2 is looking pretty fantastic. People have raised Bioshock as an example, and I'm sure there are more (console games. Not PC games. Just for those a bit slow on the uptake).
Gears was a landmark title, and it's texture fidelity has remained a high target. Comparing it to other titles, it has excellent resolution. However, it's repetition could be very apparent. This pic shows cloned surfaces/objects. To Uncharted's credit, the application of textures has reduced the appearnace of the object and texture repetition so it's less noticeable. Yes, it's still there, it always will be with these very limited RAM amounts, shared with the rest of the game engine (and more complex engine will need to scale back textures to suit). But I think ND did an excellent job in balancing their texture budget to capture the feel and variety of surfaces. A quick spot of image Googling shows Bioshock isn't using texture blending as Uncharted does, and has plenty of surface and object cloning. MGS4 was a real hodgepodge, ranging was the divine to the ridiculous in texturing. LBP has greatfidelity but huge amounts of repetition to boot, with basically single texture bundles (diffuse, normal, etc.) per 'tile' repeated across the surface. Banjo Threeie has some great fidelity and diversification across the same, but the same clear repeating of tiles.
What console games are managing to create an impressive environment without notable repetition? Are there any that achieve incredible environmental scope and diversification?
Similarly to Uncharted, when you really take a look at Crysis under the microscope, especially the trees, grass, foliage, it's all basically the same mass-repeated, procedurally generated vegetation models, repeating the same textures over and over and over again. Again, the jungle and natural island setting lends itself to this kind of repetitious approach to texture mapping.OK now take a look at this ''mega monster''
texture repetition in progress
If you are referring to consoles, I'm 99.99% certain Quake Wars used the megatexture tech for both the 360 and PS3 versions.
Panajev2001a
Veteran
Early version of it... like id Tech 4.5 (maybe?)...
I think the truth of the matter is that when developers port games to the PS3 from the 360 they are usually don't develop a texture streaming method. Resistance Fall of Man 2 gets a big texture boost due to the use of texture streaming from the HDD. If developers would build texture streaming into their engine there would be very little problem fitting 360 games into the PS3.