Memory Stick Pro Duo prices and performance

[wco81]

It's the most expensive memory card format. But I want a PSP and I can see buying a Sony camera (can I use Duo cards with the adapter in cameras which take regular Memory Sticks?).

So it seems only Sandisk and Sony make them and Sony just costs more.

For instance, Fry's is selling a 1 GB Sandisk for $129 but the Sony for $209.

In the Fry's screen, it said Sandisk Memory Stick Pro Duo for PSP. Does that mean it's too slow for cameras like the upcoming Sony DSCT33, which has a pretty fast burst mode and the ability to record 640x480 video?

The PSP of course will be able to play back video from the Memory Stick Pro Duo cards as well as run game code.

Are their differences in Memory Stick Pro Duo cards performance which may prevent certain uses?

I've also heard that you need Magic Gate Memory Sticks for certain DRM'd material, such as music downloads you may buy from Sony. But the PS2 memory cards also use Magic Gate so you wonder about PSP game saves.

But it seems only 256 MB and lower Memory Stick Duo cards explicitly carry the Magic Gate label.

 

[hey69]

(can I use Duo cards with the adapter in cameras which take regular Memory Sticks?).
= YES

DUO small version of the regulars.
PRO DUO or PRO regular means = faster then normal (yeah)

i dunno about the magicgate thing, but i had a 512PRO duo inside my PSP (like somany other people ) and it worked flawlessly.
jpgs, mp3s, save games. i didn't put movies on it myself but they would work ok i guess. (brand used SANDISK imported from USA, cause here , a 128mb costs even 79euro)

acording to the leaked usa manual, the psp doens't support atrac3+ files on DUO PRO cards for one reason or another. (since i don't have atrac+ music files, i can't cofirm, and i ran out of psps so I can't test it either)

 

[rabidrabbit]

According to a test in a finnish computer magazine, the SanDisk Memorysticks were a bit faster than Sony's own. So there should be little reason to buy the more expensive Sony cards over SanDisk.

The ATRAC files are not compatible with PRO cards because they are not Magic Gated, so DRM material seems to be only possible on <256MB cards, which sucks if Sony really wants to make the PSP a "iPod killer".
But who uses ATRAC or Sony's Connect service anyway
...shame really, as I prefer the ATRAC sound quality over MP3.

 

[hey69]

but i guess a selfmade atrac+ file is fully playable on a duo PRO , no ?. i mean it's only DRM material when you download it from a official payformusic site?

 

[rabidrabbit]

Don't know, could be. But if you use the Sonic Stage software for converting the file to ATRAC, I'd bet it does some DRM.
I really don't know what other software can do ATRAC.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

SanDisk also developed the MemoryStick format AFAIK

 

[marconelly!]

Memory sticks are made by Sony, Sandisk and Lexar, perhaps some other companies too (not sure if Lexar makes smaller, Duo, cards though)

If you are buying a card bigger than 128MB, which is what you probably plan on doing anyways, you will be getting at least a Pro class card, which means it's faster (read/writes) than the regular non-pro card. Pro cards are indeed quite fast, and read/write much faster than the regular SD cards, so if you are comparing prices, you should at least compare with those new, fast SDs. I'm guessing MS will still be more expensive, but maybe not as much as it seems to you now.

There's also what Sony calls "high speed" class of cards, which is even faster than Pro class. These can be found for around $170-190 for 1GB High Speed Duo. Sandisk makes these too, and calls that class "Ultra", but I don't think they make small Duo cards in that Ultra class yet.

Every small Duo card comes with the adapter that allows you to use that card with a device that works with the larger cards. Most of Sony's home electronics, such as photo cameras (except for the physically bigger models) now works with Duo cards, so it's likely you won't even be needing that adapter.

MagicGate is a buzzword that describes the type of encryption that Memory Sticks use when saving the data. From what I've seen, it's completely transparent to the user, and supported by all three MS manufacturers so there's nothing to worry about there. I think that MagicGate might come into play when you put DRM protected media, such as ATRAC3, on your memory stick. It might protect copying of such media to a desktop other than your own, or something like that. However, as long as you stick to regular files, no matter what they are, memory stick acts as just another external disk device.

 

[wco81]

Well here's a picture of a Sandisk 1 GB MSPD card with Magic Gate:

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_techspecs_full.php/masterid=5798554

So I guess we'll be okay. I believe even game saves may require Magic Gate because if you look at the PS2 Memory Cards, they have Magic Gate as well.

Even if you don't download Sony music downloads, I'm guessing that any video or games or demos you download will be DRM'd. KK talked about setting up "Internet authorization" to enable these services.

It's in Sony's DNA to use DRM. They just barely started supporting MP3 and they were pretty much dragged kicking and screaming.

OK back to MSPD cards. On the Sony site, they say the Pro Duo cards are capable of up to 80 Mbps write speed. Also they are rated for more extreme temperatures -- guess some people were leaving their cards in a hot car in the summer time?

Sandisk has no specs. of any kind on their site. Is it too much to ask to have some basic specs. so that consumers can compare and see the relative merits of the different brands and formats?

Guess not, considering that it's greed which led to so many different formats in the first place.

If Sandisk can read and write anywhere near 80 Mbps, it should be good for most of the anticipated uses. Recording video at 640x480 should be about the most stressful use.

 

[wco81]

Memory sticks are made by Sony, Sandisk and Lexar, perhaps some other companies too (not sure if Lexar makes smaller, Duo, cards though)

If you are buying a card bigger than 128MB, which is what you probably plan on doing anyways, you will be getting at least a Pro class card, which means it's faster (read/writes) than the regular non-pro card. Pro cards are indeed quite fast, and read/write much faster than the regular SD cards, so if you are comparing prices, you should at least compare with those new, fast SDs. I'm guessing MS will still be more expensive, but maybe not as much as it seems to you now.

There's also what Sony calls "hi-speed" class of cards, which is even faster than Pro class. These can be found for around $170-190 for 1GB Hi-Speed Duo. Sandisk makes these too, and calls that class "Ultra", but I don't think they make small Duo cards in that Ultra class yet.

Every small Duo card comes with the adapter that allows you to use that card with a device that works with the larger cards. Most of Sony's home electronics, such as photo cameras (except for the physically bigger models) now works with Duo cards, so it's likely you won't even be needing that adapter.

MagicGate is a buzzword that describes the type of encryption that Memory Sticks use when saving the data. From what I've seen, it's completely transparent to the user, and supported by all three MS manufacturers so there's nothing to worry about there. I think that MagicGate might come into play when you put DRM protected media, such as ATRAC3, on your memory stick. It might protect copying of such media to a desktop other than your own, or something like that. However, as long as you stick to regular files, no matter what they are, memory stick acts as just another external disk device.

I've seen Ultra SD cards.

The SD card prices I see are substantially less, like $80 for a 1GB card. That compares to around $200 or over $200 for a Sony-branded 1 GB Duo.

I like the small Sony cameras like the T33 (same form factor as the T1) which take Duo cards. However, I wonder about their prosumer and SLR models, which are bigger so they may use regular instead of Duo Memory Sticks.

Now if a good phone with nice multimedia features uses a Duo, then it would make the investment in Duo cards worth it.

 

[MrWibble]

Now if a good phone with nice multimedia features uses a Duo, then it would make the investment in Duo cards worth it.

Sony Ericsson phones do (such as the P900 etc). Depends if you think those are good phones or not

Not sure if another manufacturer would bother with the format.

 

[rabidrabbit]

A magazine tested Sony and SanDisk 512MB Memorystick Pro (non DUO) cards.
The promised read and write speeds were 15MB/s for both. In test the Sony stick read speed was 7,35 MB/s and SanDisk 7,99 MB/s.
Write speed for Sony was 1,5 MB/s and SanDisk 2,10 MB/s.
They tested also Compact Flash, SD and xD cards and in all of them the speeds, especially writing, were much lower than advertised (about half).

Edit: Corrected the MB/s to Mbps. Sorry, and thanks to all below who noted it (I never get them right)

Edit2: No, in the test it is indeed Megabytes per second, so that would be MB/s then, right... ? Actually it is Mt/s 'cos it's in finnish, the M is Mega, t is byte

 

[London Geezer]

A magazine tested Sony and SanDisk 512MB Memorystick Pro (non DUO) cards.
The promised read and write speeds were 15MB/s for both. In test the Sony stick read speed was 7,35 MB/s and SanDisk 7,99 MB/s.
Write speed for Sony was 1,5 MB/s and SanDisk 2,10 MB/s.
They tested also Compact Flash, SD and xD cards and in all of them the speeds, especially writing, were much lower than advertised (about half).

Wow that's quite bad, wonder why that is... I mean, false advertising or just something wrong with the things? Seen how everyone of them performs much slower than advertised, it can either be a fault in the testing or a fault somewhere else.

 

[wco81]

Maybe there's different performance depending on what device reads or writes from them?

Is 15 MB/s correct?

Sony on their web site says their Pro Duo cards are rated at 80 Mb/s. That implies the regular cards are rated abotu 50% faster.

 

[London Geezer]

Maybe there's different performance depending on what device reads or writes from them?

Is 15 MB/s correct?

Sony on their web site says their Pro Duo cards are rated at 80 Mb/s. That implies the regular cards are rated abotu 50% faster.

Well 80Mbps is 10MB/s.

 

[max-pain]

A magazine tested Sony and SanDisk 512MB Memorystick Pro (non DUO) cards.
The promised read and write speeds were 15MB/s for both.
...

http://www.memorystick.com/en/support/faq.html

"What is the transfer rate of Memory Stick PRO media?
A4. The maximum theoretical transfer speed is 160Mbps (20MB/sec). Also, a minimum write speed of 15Mbps is specified (by the format) to allow real-time recording of high-quality moving images."

So, that's Mbit/s not Mbyte/s

 

[darkblu]

A magazine tested Sony and SanDisk 512MB Memorystick Pro (non DUO) cards.
The promised read and write speeds were 15MB/s for both. In test the Sony stick read speed was 7,35 MB/s and SanDisk 7,99 MB/s.
Write speed for Sony was 1,5 MB/s and SanDisk 2,10 MB/s.
They tested also Compact Flash, SD and xD cards and in all of them the speeds, especially writing, were much lower than advertised (about half).

while the read speeds are reasonably close to the specs, the write speeds are way off. one of the big ms pro advantages sony promised was both high reading and writing speeds, so camera-type devices could actually do without expensive buffering schemes for writing the video stream to the media - new cameras were meant to stream directly onto the ms pro card; the card should have been capable of accepting ~8..10Mb sustained write speeds.

 

[wco81]

A magazine tested Sony and SanDisk 512MB Memorystick Pro (non DUO) cards.
The promised read and write speeds were 15MB/s for both. In test the Sony stick read speed was 7,35 MB/s and SanDisk 7,99 MB/s.
Write speed for Sony was 1,5 MB/s and SanDisk 2,10 MB/s.
They tested also Compact Flash, SD and xD cards and in all of them the speeds, especially writing, were much lower than advertised (about half).

while the read speeds are reasonably close to the specs, the write speeds are way off. one of the big ms pro advantages sony promised was both high reading and writing speeds, so camera-type devices could actually do without expensive buffering schemes for writing the video stream to the media - new cameras were meant to stream directly onto the ms pro card; the card should have been capable of accepting ~8..10Mb sustained write speeds.

Well 1.5 MB/s or 2.1 MB/s is greater than 8-10 Mb/s write speed isn't it?

The Memory Stick FAQ linked to in this thread notes that the 1 GB card can hold 24 minutes of DVD quality video. DVD bit rates are 5-10 Mbps.

The Sony DSCT1 can record 640x480 at 30 fps I believe and can go as long as it has space. So you would think it's writing directly to the Duo card? What is surprising is that it has the horsepower to compress in real time, assuming I read the specs. correctly.

 

[marconelly!]

The SD card prices I see are substantially less, like $80 for a 1GB card. That compares to around $200 or over $200 for a Sony-branded 1 GB Duo.

Again, you are comparing the cheapest SD cards with the most expensive variant of MS duo. You can find 1GB Sandisk Pro Duo card for $120, and Sony's faster, High Speed version for $165 (that's the cheapest I've seen). I don't know how much Ultra SD 1GB goes for, though.

I like the small Sony cameras like the T33 (same form factor as the T1) which take Duo cards. However, I wonder about their prosumer and SLR models, which are bigger so they may use regular instead of Duo Memory Sticks.

There won't be any problems. Cameras that use bigger (bon-Duo) memory sticks, will work just fine with your Duo stick when you put it in the adapter.

The Sony DSCT1 can record 640x480 at 30 fps I believe and can go as long as it has space. So you would think it's writing directly to the Duo card? What is surprising is that it has the horsepower to compress in real time, assuming I read the specs. correctly.

That is all correct. T1 saves video as MPEG1, btw. The only Sony's handheld MPEG4 video camera that I know of is M1.

 

[wco81]

The SD card prices I see are substantially less, like $80 for a 1GB card. That compares to around $200 or over $200 for a Sony-branded 1 GB Duo.

Again, you are comparing the cheapest SD cards with the most expensive variant of MS duo. You can find 1GB Sandisk Pro Duo card for $120, and Sony's faster, HiSpeed version for $165 (that's the cheapest I've seen). I don't know how much Ultra SD 1GB goes for, though.

So are the Sony cards faster than the Sandisk ones?

 

[Ty]

Man, do I HATE the naming conventions.... I'm always soooOOO confused as to the differences.