Matrox codename Parhelia again and Matrox G450 x4 MMS PCB de

[Nappe1]

first, read Matrox G450 x4 MMS introducing here: http://www.matrox.com/mga/media_center/press_rel/2002/g450_x2x4mms.cfm

then remember that Matrox Parhelia has rumoured to have 256bit memory bus.

Normally 256bit memory bus is high cost and inefective without good memory controller architechture.

but after I had read G450 x4 MMS launch info couple of times, I got an idea which I posted to Murc.
here's quote from there:

did anyone wonder about G450 x4 MMS board design?? it should be normal wide and half lenght PCI board. How on earth Matrox has been capable putting 4xG450, 64MB memory and all needed (4x64BitDatabus & control traces..) traces on that board?? I think that board design must be ernomous multilayer.

and besides... again, a piece of Parhelia: just calculate 4x64Bits and you got a number of all databits those four G450 needs to access memory. and if thier board design is even near what they had on G200MMS, they have all four chips located side by side. Like this:

---------------
|  CC           |
|  CC           |
-|||||||||-----

- C indicates the Chip.

Now replace all those C's with one huge C and you have 256Bits data path with four channels (64 Bits per channel) all running on DDR mode.

This would be:
A) a bit cheaper to build because almost same PCB could be used for four G450 chips or for Parhelia using the whole 256bits data path.
B) 256 Bit data path is awfully inefective without good crossbar like memory controller. This way they would have 4 four channels which improves efficient greatly.


I think Matrox has made first consumer market single chip 256 bit memory bus 3D graphics card

http://forums.matroxusers.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=239794#post239794

still that PCB and memory controller issues could be solved like that, but how about die size vs. amount of pins vs. heating and power consumtion?

4xG450 makes quite big size you know, so I don't think they could just replace those 4 chips with one, because that chip would be huge.

any ideas?? :smile:

EDIT: memory amount corrected.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nappe1 on 2002-02-28 14:08 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nappe1 on 2002-02-28 15:02 ]</font>

 

[Entropy]

A single chip parhelia would have several advantages over 4 450s. Much lower aggregate pincount, lower aggregate power consumtion due to more advanced lithography, die size likewise would be held in check, particularly since the pin-driving circuitry isn't that large a portion of the chip area to begin with so some growth there is OK.

Frankly, 256-bit wide memory isn't much of a challenge as far as such things go. Costs a little more, basically.

Entropy

 

[pascal]

256 bits memory is possible and viable.
Just use the same packaging that P4 and clawhammer use. See Clawhammer:

We pay too much for IP (and we are still waiting games using all this IP), it is time to pay for good process (edram?) and packaging too.

 

[Hyp-X]

On 2002-02-28 12:32, Nappe1 wrote:

I think Matrox has made first consumer market card with 256 bit data bus. :smile:

Hmm, what about V5500?
Didn't it have 2x128 bit?

 

[Nappe1]

Damn you Hyp-X.

okay, okay.. I fixed that
"I think Matrox has made first consumer market single chip 256 bit memory bus 3D graphics card."

now, happy? eh? :smile:

 

[pcchen]

Clawhammer and Sledgehammer have 256 bits memory bus? That's a news to me. IIRC Clawhammer has a single 64 bits DDR memory bus and Sledgehammer have two, and they both have more than 700 pins, not eactly "the same packaging as P4."

FYI NV25 already has near 1,000 "balls" under the chip.

 

[arjan de lumens]

You could possibly call the Rage Fury MAXX 256-bit as well (2x128 bits)

And there is also the not very well-known NEC TE5, a graphics card which actually implements a full, true 256-bit DDR memory bus ...

http://www.neccomp.com/graphics/

 

[Joe DeFuria]

And I believe ATI also already has a true single chip, 256 bit bus card in production...the FireGL 4. (Though I don't believe ATI originally designed it...it was designed by the FireGL team before they were aquired by ATI.)

 

[pascal]

Clawhammer and Sledgehammer have 256 bits memory bus? That's a news to me. IIRC Clawhammer has a single 64 bits DDR memory bus and Sledgehammer have two, and they both have more than 700 pins, not eactly "the same packaging as P4."

No off course P4 has 64 bits, and Clawhammer have 64 bits and 2 HT links (OPGA, right), and sledgehammer (CPGA left)has 128 bits and 3HT links. And they dissipate a hell of heat (a lot of power and ground).

FYI NV25 already has near 1,000 "balls" under the chip.

What they do with so many connections ???

 

[pascal]

The GF4 Ti4600 card is huge. See it side by side with GF2 Ultra:

 

[Dmitry]

omg, that GF4 looks just like voodoo5

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Yeah....nVidia must have a bunch of crappy engineers! Such "brute force" and no elegance whatsoever! At least 3dfx had an excuse for a big card...what with 2 graphics chips and all! (Note the smiley everyone!)

 

[mat]

yeah... thats the famous 3Dfx tech in this card

 

[Tagrineth]

I'm still wondering why GeForce4 cards have a veritable forest of resisters on the end.

What could it need so many for?! My dead Voodoo5 has, what, four?

 

[Reznor007]

On 2002-03-01 18:54, Tagrineth wrote:
I'm still wondering why GeForce4 cards have a veritable forest of resisters on the end.

What could it need so many for?! My dead Voodoo5 has, what, four?

Those are capacitors actually(if you are talking about the big silver ones).

 

[Tagrineth]

Aah! Damn, I knew that >.&lt;

I meant to type capacitors...

 

[Stormlord]

How about using Hypertransport channels on a graphicscard?

 

[Ascended Saiyan]

On 2002-02-28 15:01, Nappe1 wrote:
Damn you Hyp-X.

okay, okay.. I fixed that
"I think Matrox has made first consumer market single chip 256 bit memory bus 3D graphics card."

now, happy? eh? :smile:

So what sort of features can we expect from this card because I haven`t seen any sort of article thus far &amp; would it be Directx 8 or 9 compliant?

 

[K6-III]

Current rumor indicates that it'll be at least partially DX9 compliant.

 

[Nappe1]

Parhelia is most likely to be DX8.1 card with few Dx9 features like Displacement Maps and Higher Internal Color Precision.