MAG

[Shifty Geezer]

Future online gaming with lag and with well balanced games is the future. Current online gaming is prone to Issues that lead to frustrations I never got from good old fashioned offline games. I recommend online gaming is put on hold until the world internet infrastructure upgraded to single-figure ms lag, in a month or three...

 

[JPT]

The being shot through walls is a bit annoying, but it also depends on the wall, because some of them actually bullets would penetrate. For instance all the tents in valor maps, you can shoot people through the walls.

 

[Cornsnake]

I'm going for the 1000 kills shotgun medal now. Although I'm finding it a very unreliable weapon. Sometimes it's kill after kill after kill, other times 3 shots to the face still won't put an opponent down. And using it leaves you completely useless at anything beyond short range.

 

[nightshade]

I've observed that the bullet spread isn't that great in MAG, its essentially that tiny circle & your target has to be in the center of the circle to be a OHK or else he'll survive. And I find aiming to be a bit harder in MAG than say any other MP game without aim assist, like BFBC2. Its almost KZ2 level hard but then KZ2 also had tiny amount of aim assist fro Shotgun & pistol/revolvers.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm going for the 1000 kills shotgun medal now. Although I'm finding it a very unreliable weapon. Sometimes it's kill after kill after kill, other times 3 shots to the face still won't put an opponent down. And using it leaves you completely useless at anything beyond short range.

I find all weapons sometimes fail utterly, and you hear it over voice chat. "I emptied a clip into that guy and he's still going" whereas you can be dropped in two shots from an assault rifle not including a headshot. And aren't headshots guaranteed one-shot kills, no chance to be revitalised? Because I've lined up on stationary targets and hit them in the head, only to need a follow up shot. That's why online gaming sucks - it's unreliable.

Had a really good match today defending VALOR, with 20 kills to 7 deaths, dominating the right-hand side. But prior to that had an utterly demoralising game against SVER with 14 clan members all working as a team. There's no defense against that. I wish developers could actually balance games. That's part of the whole misery of online gaming.

 

[JPT]

But prior to that had an utterly demoralising game against SVER with 14 clan members all working as a team. There's no defense against that. I wish developers could actually balance games. That's part of the whole misery of online gaming.

Mmmm are you saying that coordinated teamplay should not be rewarded?

 

[patsu]

I think the lag is more noticeable during odd hours (i.e., playing with EU and Asia players).

I personally haven't encountered any serious lag. Sometimes I did hear folks complain about missing knife kills, but I was ok in the same session. I was often killed by MGs with 4x scopes too.

The most difficult task was to snipe at sprinting enemies at 90 degrees. Or to headshot people at close quarter.

Shifty, if you headshot people, they should not be revivable. Where were you hiding when the enemies killed you through the wall ?

I'm going for the 1000 kills shotgun medal now. Although I'm finding it a very unreliable weapon. Sometimes it's kill after kill after kill, other times 3 shots to the face still won't put an opponent down. And using it leaves you completely useless at anything beyond short range.

I think shotgun is the most effective in the Valor Objective B map. There are a lot of cover. Valors give me the most headache there.


At level 60 now. I used my last 3 points to buy a P90. It's so light that I can carry the bazooka, the MP7 sidearm, heavy armor, poison grenade and the medical kit at the same time. Looking forward to try it out in the field.

I've observed that the bullet spread isn't that great in MAG, its essentially that tiny circle & your target has to be in the center of the circle to be a OHK or else he'll survive. And I find aiming to be a bit harder in MAG than say any other MP game without aim assist, like BFBC2. Its almost KZ2 level hard but then KZ2 also had tiny amount of aim assist fro Shotgun & pistol/revolvers.

I usually try to aim at the head level. It's easier to get a kill that way, even when using my inadequate MP7 sidearm.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Mmmm are you saying that coordinated teamplay should not be rewarded?

No, I'm saying you shouldn't out that high level of play up against a low level of play, just as you wouldn't put Woking FC (in their current form) up against Man U, or a 13 year old regional 100m runner up against the Olympic finalists. Games are supposed to be fun and being on the receiving end of a thrashing for 20 minutes isn't. I've been on both sides of thrashings in different games, and I always consider it appalling game design/balancing, never helped by teammates quitting because they're fed up. In fact there's a significant clue. If a game is fun, people wouldn't quit. If players are quitting a round it means the designers have made mistakes and are pissing them off. A highly skilled clan should be fighting other highly skilled clans, not a rabble. The best games I ever play online are those of similar skill-level players, that bring an ebb and flow to the balance of power, exciting struggles, and often close endings, either winning or losing in the final minutes. Games where the enemy are getting mowed down at the spawn points, or where I'm getting mowed down at the spawn points, aren't fun, and I soldier through them just for the XP and to try different tactics when I can.

I think the lag is more noticeable during odd hours (i.e., playing with EU and Asia players).

Shifty, if you headshot people, they should not be revivable.

That's what I thought. I guess where I'm seeing a head-shot, the players are actually positioned differently and I'm hitting torsos.

Where were you hiding when the enemies killed you through the wall ?

Lots of places. Worst one last night, attacking B on SVER Sabotage. On the rightmost side there's that little shack in the middle of that passage to the walkway. I was peering around the right of said shack, saw two enemies in the distance, let off a few bullets, took a couple and retreated behind the shack. A second later I died, and the camera swung round to point through the shack. As another example, defending VALOR right-side (can't remember if that's A or B), you have those defensive walls forming a perimeter, apparently put there by VALOR to help enemies sneak round (I recommend the VALOR leaders pick up a book on medieval fortifications as a starting point to reconsider their defensive position!). A couple of times I've engaged enemies and retreated well behind the wall to fix myself up, only to be dealt a killing blow through the wall. Or maybe the bullets are curving around it. RAVEN are supposed to be High Tech!

I also tried shooting through tents, detecting enemy on the other side with my motion detector and spraying liberally in their direction. It didn't work, not registering a single hit. The tents in question were the ones at the back on the right, based on VALORs POV, so I guess the left side for attackers.

 

[patsu]

Lots of places. Worst one last night, attacking B on SVER Sabotage. On the rightmost side there's that little shack in the middle of that passage to the walkway. I was peering around the right of said shack, saw two enemies in the distance, let off a few bullets, took a couple and retreated behind the shack. A second later I died, and the camera swung round to point through the shack. As another example, defending VALOR right-side (can't remember if that's A or B), you have those defensive walls forming a perimeter, apparently put there by VALOR to help enemies sneak round (I recommend the VALOR leaders pick up a book on medieval fortifications as a starting point to reconsider their defensive position!). A couple of times I've engaged enemies and retreated well behind the wall to fix myself up, only to be dealt a killing blow through the wall. Or maybe the bullets are curving around it. RAVEN are supposed to be High Tech!

If there was no one shooting at you from SVER Objective B (You left flank), then it sounds like a lag. You got shot while peering around the corner.

For the Valor Objective B , I think the most effective tactic for Valor is to rush the enemies with shotgun. It's very difficult to flush them out of the area because that map is like a maze. If the Valors are able to form a team of 3-5 men, they can drag out the battle for the entire 20-30 minutes.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If there was no one shooting at you from SVER Objective B (You left flank), then it sounds like a lag. You got shot while peering around the corner.

Yes, I think it's lag in all such cases, and it's significant, up to a second in terms of what I experience. That's why some connection quality gauge would be useful, as if there's more lag one should change their approach.

For the Valor Objective B , I think the most effective tactic for Valor is to rush the enemies with shotgun.

These sorts of tactics discussions are great on paper, but will never happen outside of well organised clans. Rushing in with shotguns requires your team to have shotguns as an option, which are either a high level option or a rare specialisation for early on - I've never used them beyond one I picked up. I've also thought of other tactics, like using a smoke-screen to hide the team's intentions, dummying one way but sidetracking for an unexpected rear-guard action. Or suggesting everyone holds back/storms the other objective. But the team doesn't listen and isn't coordinated, so this just doesn't and won't ever happen. All the tactics potential of a team game is lost in the actual thing.

 

[patsu]

Yes, I think it's lag in all such cases, and it's significant, up to a second in terms of what I experience. That's why some connection quality gauge would be useful, as if there's more lag one should change their approach.

I think one of the earlier patches addressed intentional laggers. May be they are under attack again ?

These sorts of tactics discussions are great on paper, but will never happen outside of well organised clans. Rushing in with shotguns requires your team to have shotguns as an option, which are either a high level option or a rare specialisation for early on - I've never used them beyond one I picked up.

Gah... I have already encountered teams adopting this exact strategy for more than 10 times. I didn't come up with the idea. They thought me the hard way.

It's devastating because the attackers will get killed soon after the spawn point from behind, left and right flanks.

EDIT: It's one of the factors that pushed me to become a sniper. If I noticed that the Valors are using the shotgun rush strategy, I'd go to the large building at the back of my spawn location, and snipe from higher ground. It could only cover the buildings near Raven spawn point, so few people visit/camp at that location usually. It's easy to see when Valors are rushing with shotgun. Objective B will have very very few foot traffic (Most, if not all, of the Raven guys will be shot in the building area).

I've also thought of other tactics, like using a smoke-screen to hide the team's intentions, dummying one way but sidetracking for an unexpected rear-guard action. Or suggesting everyone holds back/storms the other objective. But the team doesn't listen and isn't coordinated, so this just doesn't and won't ever happen. All the tactics potential of a team game is lost in the actual thing.

You need to find a clan. v_v

 

[Cornsnake]

I've observed that the bullet spread isn't that great in MAG, its essentially that tiny circle & your target has to be in the center of the circle to be a OHK or else he'll survive. And I find aiming to be a bit harder in MAG than say any other MP game without aim assist, like BFBC2. Its almost KZ2 level hard but then KZ2 also had tiny amount of aim assist fro Shotgun & pistol/revolvers.

The bullet spread may be small for the kill, but I did notice I was able to hit, but not kill, teammates with it who were well out of the circle. I think I'll take some time to shoot some walls to see how wide the spread is at which distances.

I find all weapons sometimes fail utterly, and you hear it over voice chat. "I emptied a clip into that guy and he's still going" whereas you can be dropped in two shots from an assault rifle not including a headshot. And aren't headshots guaranteed one-shot kills, no chance to be revitalised? Because I've lined up on stationary targets and hit them in the head, only to need a follow up shot. That's why online gaming sucks - it's unreliable.

With assault rifles, depending on the type of armour and extra health, it takes 2 headshots at least, and an additional bodyshot at most. Resuscitation may still be possible after a headshot. To bleed someone out immediately you need to do about 50% extra damage. For reliability I compare every gun to the ATAC, because that's the one I was used to, and they all fall short it. With the ATAC I knew perfectly well it if my shots were going to be headshots. Valor's SFCR-LW simply isn't that accurate, and will occasionally miss the target at a distance, even though my aim was perfect.

I think the lag is more noticeable during odd hours (i.e., playing with EU and Asia players).

Yeah, I wish they would let us choose regional server, like Rfom had.

I think shotgun is the most effective in the Valor Objective B map. There are a lot of cover. Valors give me the most headache there.

Valor's and SVER's Sabotage maps are pretty good for the shotgun, Raven's not so much. The best spot I've found is just waiting for my targets to come me at Valor's objective C in the resupply room.

At level 60 now. I used my last 3 points to buy a P90. It's so light that I can carry the bazooka, the MP7 sidearm, heavy armor, poison grenade and the medical kit at the same time. Looking forward to try it out in the field.

It's great weapon, I used get a ton kills with it defending bunkers. It's nice being able to keep shooting if there are enough targets available, compared to the assault rifles which will have you ducking in and out of cover to reload.

These sorts of tactics discussions are great on paper, but will never happen outside of well organised clans. Rushing in with shotguns requires your team to have shotguns as an option, which are either a high level option or a rare specialisation for early on - I've never used them beyond one I picked up. I've also thought of other tactics, like using a smoke-screen to hide the team's intentions, dummying one way but sidetracking for an unexpected rear-guard action. Or suggesting everyone holds back/storms the other objective. But the team doesn't listen and isn't coordinated, so this just doesn't and won't ever happen. All the tactics potential of a team game is lost in the actual thing.

Indeed, the only reason I have the shotgun now is because I have a fully upgraded assault rifle to fall back on. And even then I'm only using it if I'm playing with a clan, so I know there is someone around who can take care of targets a distance, letting me focus on any that step too close.

 

[Cornsnake]

I think one of the earlier patches addressed intentional laggers. May be they are under attack again ?

There are still people with lag switches causing problems. But Zipper is still looking for those people. And if you've seen somebody using a lag switch, you can sent their PSN name, the date, and game type to Zpr_DunhamSmash on the official MAG forums. They can check the replay, and they will ban any lag switch users.

 

[patsu]

Valor's and SVER's Sabotage maps are pretty good for the shotgun, Raven's not so much. The best spot I've found is just waiting for my targets to come me at Valor's objective C in the resupply room.

Ha ha, yeah, sneaky Valors like to hide in the corner next to the resupply room door, or behind the walls outside the main staircase. If I see no one in the resupply room, I usually lobe 2 chemical grenades inside and let someone else charge in first.

It's great weapon, I used get a ton kills with it defending bunkers. It's nice being able to keep shooting if there are enough targets available, compared to the assault rifles which will have you ducking in and out of cover to reload.

That, and the weapon's light weight ! I was elated when I found out that I could keep stuffing my guy with gears and top grade armor.

Indeed, the only reason I have the shotgun now is because I have a fully upgraded assault rifle to fall back on. And even then I'm only using it if I'm playing with a clan, so I know there is someone around who can take care of targets a distance, letting me focus on any that step too close.

I thought the shotguns are great for defending/holding an objective too.

EDIT:

Yeah, I wish they would let us choose regional server, like Rfom had.

It is &%*$&%*$( amazing how Insomniac could address all the important areas, and deliver a near perfect MP game for a launch period title.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

With assault rifles, depending on the type of armour and extra health, it takes 2 headshots at least, and an additional bodyshot at most. Resuscitation may still be possible after a headshot. To bleed someone out immediately you need to do about 50% extra damage. For reliability I compare every gun to the ATAC, because that's the one I was used to, and they all fall short it. With the ATAC I knew perfectly well it if my shots were going to be headshots. Valor's SFCR-LW simply isn't that accurate, and will occasionally miss the target at a distance, even though my aim was perfect.

You are a fabulous source of info - thanks!

Incidentally what's lag switch do? I presume it's a box between console and connection that introduces lag, but is it unidrectional or something? How does it give an advantage?

You know, I really ought to Google that before asking!
Edit : Answering my own question, http://www.bestlag.com/. Now I know what to look out for, and I've seen that in KZ2 which now explains a good deal. I'd have thought it'd be an easy solution though. Just monitor connections, and any player with that much lag gets chucked irrespective of whether it's intenional or not, because it upsets the gameplay. Let them find a game they aren't suffereing huge lag on.

 

[Cornsnake]

Your welcome.

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010/04/12/mag-qa-with-zipper-interactive/

Nice little interview with Zipper. It's seems they are still hard at work making improvements to MAG, and adding content.

 

[patsu]

Excellent !

4.) There have been rumors that there will be a 4th fraction. Is that true? An African or Asian faction would be amazing.

Alan Van Slyke: While I won’t comment directly, I will say that one of the things we’re happiest with about MAG is that we’ve built a capable platform. Adding gametypes, factions, weapon types, vehicle types, expanding command structure… the opportunities are limitless, and we’ve only scratched the surface of what we can do with our engine and networking capabilities.

MAG, with user-created scenarios please !

12.) Is there any chance of a leadership tutorial or at least a help guide within the game? A lot of leaders I’ve had recently don’t seem to have a clue about Frago’s or their abilities. The only place I’ve found this information is this forum, there is little mention of it in the manual.

Alan Van Slyke: Additional tutorials and training is definitely something we hope to assist players with. If you’re a new player, ask your squadmates how the FRAGOs work… and if you’re a veteran player, feel free to help your squad leader if he needs it… you’re all in it together!

Better late than never.

 

[Cornsnake]

I'm glad were finally getting those. Though I feel they'll never be able to explain everything that needs explaining thanks to the shear amout of things that need it.

 

[patsu]

Well, the minimum they have to do are:

* FRAGO and waypoint

* Show how the military assets can harm/benefit the player during the tutorial.

The first time I was in the field, I couldn't decide what's what when I was standing right in front of the vehicle depot.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I've tried setting waypoints alongside FRAGO's to show a path for squaddies to take - eg. Take Objective B, go right and across the bridge - but I'm unable to. Setting the FRAGO uses the waypoint. Am I missing something? I should be able to set multiple waypoints to define a path of attack.

Played an Acquisition game last night, attacking SVER. Little teamwork, with forces scattered across the front lines unable to push forwards because the SVER map is so strong. Some guy, think it was our Platoon Leader, was crying out for those on the right to leave the right side and focus everyone on the left, but they wouldn't. Hence 30 minutes of zero progress. I don't think the average player will play the way Zipper were anticipating.