Late, noisy, HUGE!!! - makes 17k Mark...

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Doomtrooper said:
Wrong

Easily it could have read..

X86 processor
Intel or AMD class processor

Somebody paid a little more $$ to eliminate the other..who has more money.

And I could easily ask for a facial tissue instead of a Kleenex when I need to blow my nose, but just because I don't, it doesn't mean I'm getting money from Kimberly-Clark. If this is part of your "evidence", I'm glad you're not a district attourney.
 
I've never worked for a non-profit organization. Or did you mean that I must work for one of Bapco's members? Like AMD?
 
AMD just joined after exposing some 'laughable code', that showed a certain processor in a much better light, Madonion formed a partnership with Bapco..you figure the rest out...Like AMD Athlon XP processors not getting any SSE improvements in benchmarks even though it has SSE :rolleyes:

A hacked exe had to be run to allow a more accurate benchmark that forced Sysmark to use the SSE on a Xp processor.

There are people in the world that overlook and then there is people that realize the way corporations work.

http://www.cdmag.com/articles/024/043/futuremark.html
 
Joe, I was part of the MS DX9 beta program and there was no way Microsoft could have shipped DX9 by the time ATI shipped the R300. No conspiracy required. DX9 wasn't ready, underwent significant changes, and had lots of bugs. ATI beta DX9 drivers weren't ready either. Remember, DX9 includes way more than just Direct3D. Big updates to DirectPlay, DirectMedia/DirectShow, and addition of Managed DirectX. All had to be tested and bug fixed before shipping. Not to mention they had to developer a friggin HLSL compiler too.

Hardware design has always preceded software. Both ATI and NVidia were designing "DirectX9 class" hardware before MS had the first DX9 paper specs finalized.


I suppose MadOnion is going to be accused of optimizing their new benchmark in favor of NV30 even though they had no hardware to even develop it on for the last 6-12 months except for R300 and REFRAST!


Fact is, DirectX wasn't delayed because of the NV30, it was delayed because it needed more time to mature. And of course, it was shipped before the NV30 hit the streets along with ATI shipping the first DX9 compliant drivers, so that just fits right in with the conspiracy theory right?


Problem with conspiracy theories is that people only pay attention to "hits" and ignore evidence or logic that doesn't fit the theory.
 
Simple question, why did DX9 undergo significant changes? Was it to cater to certain hardware mfgs? :idea:

Or was it to expand the flexibility to include PS2+/VS2+ and PS3/VS3 ?
 
Bapco was always 'questioned' to have obvious Bias...lots of conspiracy theories until it was proven, as was Quack..where did it originate from..lots of conspiracy theories until again it was proven.

It is so laughable to even deny it, Futuremark is only looking to whoever pays the most cash to put their Logo, trademark whatever in their engine...show me the money.
 
Slides said:
Just like ATI's Quake driver cheat?

oh good god, not this crap again.
prove it was a cheat.
IMO, it was a bug, that didnt even effect performance (next set of drivers didnt have bug, had SAME performance) so shut up about it already.
 
Most of the changes to DX9 betas were bug fixes, not the radical feature enhancements. Functions got renamed, etc. The HLSL morphed alittle over time. MS did not "hold up" DirectX9 to make it NV30 friendly.
 
It would be better if people looked at the history of things before leaping to conspiracy theories...

DX7 released to the public = September 22nd 1999
NVIDIA announce (general press release) the GeForce = August 31st 1999
MadOnion release 3DMark2000 = December 6th 1999

DX8 released to the public = November 2000
NVIDIA announce (general press release) the GeForce3 = February 22nd 2001
MadOnion release 3DMark2001 = March 13th 2001
First benchmark reviews of GF3 appear after the 20th
First GF3 cards available in the UK = end of March/beginning of April

DX9 released to the public = December 20th 2002
NVIDIA announced (general press release) the GeForce FX = December 19th 2002
Futuremark release 3DMark03 = Q1 2003 (possibly Feb?)
NVIDIA release GeForce FX = Q1 2003 (possibly Feb/March?)

So then, the facts first. A new version of 3DMark has always appeared sometime after the release of the version of DX it requires. 3DM2k appeared after the release of the GeForce; 3DM2k1 appeared a little bit before the release of the GF3.

Now for the sarcasm. Given this huge, overwhelming evidence it blatently clear that Futuremark are paid by NVIDIA to time the launch of all their 3DMark programs with the exact launch of their latest hardware. NVIDIA would try to do the same to Microsoft (with DX) but can't afford it.

People on these boards read way too much into things, you know. It would seem that some folks take great pleasure in just being aggressive, confrontational or provocative.
 
Slides said:
Althornin said:
Slides said:
Just like ATI's Quake driver cheat?

oh good god, not this crap again.
prove it was a cheat.
IMO, it was a bug, that didnt even effect performance (next set of drivers didnt have bug, had SAME performance) so shut up about it already.
Un-huh. The refrence to "Quake" in their drivers was a "bug"?

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTEx

drivers have per-game settings. this is not cheating.
 
Neeyik said:
It would be better if people looked at the history of things before leaping to conspiracy theories...

...

why did you choose to compare *announcement dates* of nvidia products with *release dates* of madonion products ? this make no sense at all...

suprising idea.

comparing release dates of madonion products with release dates of nvidia products whould give far more pertinent (and probably more interesting) results.

the question i can't stop asking to myself: how is financed madonion ? i don't think that 3dmarks pro sales is enough to cover all costs involved with benchmark developping, the website etc...
i would be very interested to know about the compisition of their income.
 
Magnum PI said:
...
the question i can't stop asking to myself: how is financed madonion ? i don't think that 3dmarks pro sales is enough to cover all costs involved with benchmark developping, the website etc...
i would be very interested to know about the compisition of their income.

The question i keep asking myself (especially after reading this http://www.futuremark.com/betaprogram) is:

If 3D Mark was clearly optimized for one IHV, wouldn't we hear a lot of screams about that from the other participants in the betaprogram ?
 
why did you choose to compare *announcement dates* of nvidia products with *release dates* of madonion products ? this make no sense at all...

suprising idea.

comparing release dates of madonion products with release dates of nvidia products whould give far more pertinent (and probably more interesting) results.
The actual release dates of graphics cards isn't written in stone or properly recorded anywhere. NVIDIA don't "do" release dates - only the card manufacturers do and not only do they they vary from country to country, they also vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. If somebody could show me the documentation that clearly shows when the first GeForce3 was publically and commercially available anywhere in the world (either via a shop or online), I would have quite happily used that data. MadOnion/Futuremark don't really give release dates either - their products are announced and launched on the same day.

I should imagine that Futuremark's income is from a variety of sources: registered versions of all the benchmarks, beta program member fees, access fees to the benchmark database, measurement and testing services, magazine fees, etc.
 
Doomtrooper said:
My IQ is not in question here (there is some that think I have the IQ of a rock)..my question comes for the obvious wording that your benchmark requires to ensure that you can take it to the bank...its called X86 in case you were not aware *which I'm sure you were.
I didn't question your IQ. I only presume that you are smarter/more clever/brighter/etc. than to really think that there is some conspiracy going on.. FYI, I saw some papers somewhere here at the office that had "x86" instead of IBM, Intel or AMD. I can't be sure if it will be used in the final copy, but I saw a glimpse of it. :)

Doomtrooper said:
Bapco ??

Kyro ??

Splash Screen ??

Performance Analyzer ??

Lod Bias Hack ??

Instead of me proving you wrong, you prove me wrong.
BAPCo is not Futuremark. We don't do the benchmarks (SYSmark, MobileMark etc.) - BAPCo does. We only do smaller bits and pieces to the benchmarks, but not the benchmark code itself.
KYRO... What about KYRO? is there something you haven't got an answer to? What am I missing now?
Splash Screen? What "Splash Screen" do you refer to?
The Performance Analyzer. Yes we have such a service. ATI, NVIDIA, EA etc. are companies that has used it. What about it? It gives you wrong information? I don't think so. It is based on projects from 3DMark2001 SE. The PA is working just fine.
Lod Bias Hack? Could you elaborate on that one? Or do you mean that it is unfair (or something) that people can adjust the LOD from within the drivers which makes the benchmark to improve, what, a couple of percent? Is it OUR fault that there is such an option in the drivers? There's nothing we can do about that. Blame the manufacturers for putting it in there. There is no way we can "reset to default" from within the software, nor can the software see what settings people are using.

Doom,

What exactly do you have against Futuremark anyway? :? If I find a mention of 3DMark or Futuremark here at B3D, I am 100% sure to find your name in that thread and bashing the hell out of the software and/or company. Could you care to explain why, so that I (and perhaps some others too) could understand you better?

*phew*

Magnum PI,

We do not paper launch a benchmark several months before its release. Never did, and will most probably never do. We just did release a teaser, but it was merely to tease people, and to let all the users know a release date estimate. Not to announce the benchmark with all its features and tests. Nobody outside our company (and our beta members + some under NDA) still know what the benchmark is all about. What tests, what settings, etc. So releasing some screenshots/teaser isn't what I would call a major announcement. We announce the full software with all the data, when it is available.
If you have any questions about our company, why not check out the company pages (http://www.futuremark.com/companyinfo/) for that. If you still can't find what you are looking for, why not email to someone from the company? The proper contact information can be found at http://www.futuremark.com/companyinfo/?contact.

Bjorn,

The idea with the BETA program is to stay unbiased and to keep all players on the same level. It makes the benchmark development so much more clear and easy. All the companies that are listed have been working closely with us for years. To make a benchmark that works with most hardware out there isn't exactly easy. Ask anyone who makes demos/benchmarks. Thera are always some weird compatibility problems. It takes time to nail them out. The BETA program makes sure that we have even a chance to do that.

It would be impossible for us to release our benchmarks straight after the release of the DX. We need to get the final build (gold) in order to tweak out all the remaining bugs etc. It's not like we would sit and wait for the final DX, and then the next day ship the benchmark. When we get the final build of DX, we need to develope some stuff, make sure that it works on all the harwdare, check for abnomalies (if it's due to the DX, Drivers, our code etc.) and so on. It's not easy at all. If benchmarks would be easy to produce, wouldn't everyone make them? ;)
 
worm[Futuremark said:
] It's not easy at all. If benchmarks would be easy to produce, wouldn't everyone make them? ;)

Speaking of which, I've got this new benchmark I'm selling.... ;)
 
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