LAN problems

[Basic]

I've recently got another computer (laptop), and want to rearrange the network so all PCs can talk to each other. But it seems as it was a bit harder than I thought.

The way I want it:
WAN goes to the WLAN router (Netgerar WGT634U, firewall with SPI and NAT).
Laptop (XP Pro) is connected through WLAN.
PC#1 (XP Pro) is connected to the router with cable.
PC#2 (Win 98 ) is connected to the second ethernet port of PC#1.

There's no problem setting up the router, laptop and PC#2 (AFAICS). But PC#1 is a bit odd. I can't find any options in the wizards or manual setup to configure it.

To me it looks like you have to choose between:
1) WAN on one port, LAN on the other (that's how it was configured before the laptop).
2) WAN and LAN on the same port. As in: all computers connected directly to the router.

But I want WAN+half of the LAN on one port, and the rest of the LAN on the other. It seems like a rather odd limitation if that's not possible.
Does anyone have an idea/hint what to do or look for.

 

[Guden Oden]

Silly question perhaps, but WHY are you doing this? Isn't it easier to just hook up PC #2 to the router as well? Seems to me that would solve your entire problem in one fell swoop.

 

[Basic]

Not a silly question at all.

It would solve the problem, but I rather not do it because of the physical location of stuff.

I want the router to be at one place to optimize WLAN coverage, and to have it well placed for future computerization of the flat. PC#1 and PC#2 are located "far" away, and I don't feel like adding one more long TP cable for PC#2. The first cable is hidden in already existing ducts, but there isn't space for one more. So another cable would be an ugly installation.

But I have considered moving the router as a temporary solution. If nobody here has a solution, I guess that's what I'll do for now.

 

[Frank]

The internet connection sharing wizard might help, but it is better to do it manually.

What you basically have to do, is make a bridge between the two cards in PC 1, which means they both have to have their own IP range, so it can be routed.

So, the router does DHCP and gives PC 1 the IP adress 192.168.0.2, and the laptop 192.168.0.3, both with subnet mask 255.255.255.0. So, they're both in segment 192.168.0.x.

For the second PC, the first one has to function as gateway and it has to know where to send the data, so there can be communication.

If you want to do that manually, you first have to give the second PC a fixed IP adress, like 192.168.1.2, the second network card in the first PC 192.168.1.1 and both the network mask 255.255.255.0, so they're both in segment 192.168.1.x. In PC 2, you specify 192.168.1.1 as the adress of the gateway, and as DNS server the same ones as for the first card in PC 1.

Next, you select BOTH network cards in the network connections page on PC 1, right click on them and select "make bridge".

And it should work.

 

[Basic]

First, thanks for the help.

The internet connection sharing wizard might help, but it is better to do it manually.

The wizard only mentions five different options, of which the two I mentioned above are the closest, but still not close enough.

What you basically have to do, is make a bridge between the two cards in PC 1, which means they both have to have their own IP range, so it can be routed.

So, the router does DHCP and gives PC 1 the IP adress 192.168.0.2, and the laptop 192.168.0.3, both with subnet mask 255.255.255.0. So, they're both in segment 192.168.0.x.

OK
In my case it's 192.168.1.x , so I'll change the IP numbers below to 192.168.2.x.

For the second PC, the first one has to function as gateway and it has to know where to send the data, so there can be communication.

Do I need to enable "gatewaying" in PC#1 in some way (more than entering IPs as you mention below)?

If you want to do that manually, you first have to give the second PC a fixed IP adress, like 192.168.1.2, the second network card in the first PC 192.168.1.1 and both the network mask 255.255.255.0, so they're both in segment 192.168.1.x. In PC 2, you specify 192.168.1.1 as the adress of the gateway, and as DNS server the same ones as for the first card in PC 1.

Ohhh, we're getting somewhere:
Filesharing:
PC#1 <-> PC#2 works (Yippie)
PC#1 <-> Laptop works (well, it already did)
PC#2 <-> Laptop still doesn't work (OK, I havent done any bridgeing yet)

Internet:
PC#1 and Laptop work (as before).
PC#2 doesn't work

However, in PC#1 i get the DNS IP automatically, but in PC#2 (Win98) ther's no such option. Only options are fix IP, or disabled DNS.

Next, you select BOTH network cards in the network connections page on PC 1, right click on them and select "make bridge".

And it should work.

Well, here I've got some trouble.
When I bridge the two ethernet connections on PC#1, it breaks down completely. Nothing LAN/WAN related works on either PC#1 or PC#2. The laptop does still work.

I found somewhere in the help that it's not allowed to make such a bridge between the LAN and the port that goes out to internet. So maybe I shouldn't be surprised that it doesn't work.

Either way, thanks for the help. You made the important part work. As long as the Laptop and PC#1 works well with WAN and file sharing, it doesn't matter if PC#2 only has filesharing with PC#1. I never surf on that PC anyway, but I need the filesharing to work.

Still, if you (or anyone else) has any more input, it's welcome.

 

[Frank]

Can you do "ipconfig /all" and "route print" in a dos box (start -> run -> cmd) on PC 1 before and after you make the bridge, and post the results? You can add " >> log.txt" after the commands, it will create a file called log.txt in the current directory that holds all the info.

Edit: I normally only do these things on servers, so it might work different in this case.

 

[wireframe]

An "easy" fix would be to stick a switch near PC 1 & 2 and use this instead of bridging through one of the boxes. This is cleaner overall and may prevent future problems where the XP bridge may not work as expected. Another obvious bonus is that if PC 1 should break, or need to be rebooted, PC2 will not be affected.

Why not even stick a WiFi AP with an integrated switch there to improve WiFi coverage? Maybe even an AP+switch+print server. That way you can shut off the PCs and still have network access to printers. The possibilities are endless

 

[Basic]

Here you go.
Hmm, is a MAC adress something you should be restrictive to shout out? Probably not, but I'll obfuscate them a bit anyway.

Loging in to the firewall and checking attached devices, and I see the 02-0C-... MAC below, and yes it's got the IP 192.168.1.6 .
Wait a moment, I could reach the firewall and... yep internet too ... and file sharing between PC#1 and PC#2 still works. But internet on PC#2 still doesn't work.

Now I get a bit of hubris and think I can take the IP for the DNS from the log, and fill it in to PC#2. (That's btw the IP I use to log in and configure the firewall.) Adding DNS IP, doing the required reboot of #2, and now filesharing is dead between #1 and #2.

------------------ Before ------------------ 

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : bassathlon
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . : 
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 2:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : 
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : 3Com 3C920B-EMB Integrated Fast Ethernet Controller
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-E0-..-..-..-..
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : 
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NVIDIA nForce MCP Networking Controller
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0C-..-..-..-..
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.3
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
        Primary WINS Server . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : den 16 juli 2005 04:20:43
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : den 23 juli 2005 04:20:43


------------------ After ------------------ 

Windows IP Configuration

        Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : bassathlon
        Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . : 
        Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
        IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
        WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Network Bridge (Network Bridge) 3:

        Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : 
        Description . . . . . . . . . . . : MAC Bridge Miniport
        Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-0C-..-..-..-..    // Same as for nForce MCP above
                                                                 // Except 02 in beginning
        Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
        Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
        IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.6
        Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
        Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
        DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
        DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
        Primary WINS Server . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
        Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : den 16 juli 2005 05:34:09
        Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : den 23 juli 2005 05:34:09

 

[Frank]

I think it's a firewall that's causing the problems. Probably the XP SP 2 one.

If it isn't a firewall, can you post your routing table (route print) when the bridge is activated?

Btw, the internet sharing and that you cannot make the WAN connection part of the bridge isn't relevant here, because the router is handling that. You're just connecting two LAN's, which means you need a bridge. And using the DNS adresses from the provider should be fine.

 

[Basic]

Turning off the sw firewall on PC#1 didn't help. PC#2 doesn't have a firewall. That should still be safe, shouldn't it? The firewall in XP SP 2 doesn't do much more than the router/firewall already does, or?

===========================================================================
Interface List
0x1 ........................... MS TCP Loopback interface
0xe0002 ...02 0c 6e 06 9a 50 ...... MAC Bridge Miniport - Packet Scheduler Miniport
===========================================================================
===========================================================================
Active Routes:
Network Destination        Netmask          Gateway       Interface  Metric
          0.0.0.0          0.0.0.0      192.168.1.1     192.168.1.6	  20
        127.0.0.0        255.0.0.0        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1	  1
      192.168.1.0    255.255.255.0      192.168.1.6     192.168.1.6	  20
      192.168.1.6  255.255.255.255        127.0.0.1       127.0.0.1	  20
    192.168.1.255  255.255.255.255      192.168.1.6     192.168.1.6	  20
        224.0.0.0        240.0.0.0      192.168.1.6     192.168.1.6	  20
  255.255.255.255  255.255.255.255      192.168.1.6     192.168.1.6	  1
Default Gateway:       192.168.1.1
===========================================================================
Persistent Routes:
  None

Ohh, I see duty calls. I got to run (liquor testing duty). Back at Sunday evening (probably).
And thanks again for the help done.

 

[Frank]

There is no route to the second network. Try this:

Open a dos box, and type:

route add 192.168.2.0 mask 255.255.255.0 192.168.2.1

If that doesn't work directly, remove the bridge, check if the route still exists, and if not add it again.

Btw, I understand your frustration, as this is really hard to get right in Windows when it's not a server. I always have to fiddle quite a bit to get these things to work myself. On a server, you have more options, but it is still a bitch. I think Microsoft tries to make it easy, and thereby they made it very hard to get it to work at all.

 

[t0y]

Theoretically, you just need to get 2 nics on your pc#1 to act as bridge. This way your pc#2 will also get an IP from the router. At least that's the way it should work if all your nics support promiscuous mode.

Check here for more details.