Kyro 3 Effectively Dead!

[ActionNews]

.....Regarding the comparison between the Zeotrope and Series 4, I'd say that the Zeotrope wins on features, and the Series 4 would win on effective fillrate.....
Entropy

??? As i know Zoetrope is a DX7-Chip! The only difference Between Zoetrope and Series 3 (KyroI/II) concerning features is Hardware-T&L. Series 4 (KyroIII) will have Hardware-T&L too --- perhaps even DX8 (Pixel and Vertex Shader) as David Harold said at CeBIT the KyroIII would be a Highend-Chip. And as far i know the Serie 5 will be a DX9-Chip ( www.hardware.fr ).

CU ActionNews

 

[relativity]

??? As i know Zoetrope is a DX7-Chip! The only difference Between Zoetrope and Series 3 (KyroI/II) concerning features is Hardware-T&L. Series 4 (KyroIII) will have Hardware-T&L too --- perhaps even DX8 (Pixel and Vertex Shader) as David Harold said at CeBIT the KyroIII would be a Highend-Chip. And as far i know the Serie 5 will be a DX9-Chip ( www.hardware.fr ).

Can we stop talking about KyroIII, its dead unless I am completely
mistaken. STM is out of the graphics market. The KyroIII that I was
aware of had no Pixel and Vertex Shaders.

 

[PVR_Extremist]

Kyro 3 was fully DX8 compliant....

 

[relativity]

I don't want to really get into a argument here, the Kyro III (aka STG5XXX), that I was aware of did not support in hardware vetex or
pixel shaders.

Now, Kristof, can standup and contradict me

 

[Dave B(TotalVR)]

KYRO III fully DX8 compliant? well it would be lovely but I was reasonably sure that this wasn't the case - some DX8 features yes, but not all, in particular no pixel shaders..

 

[Teasy]

Can we stop talking about KyroIII, its dead unless I am completely
mistaken

Err, this thread is all about Kyro III, so why should people stop talking about Kyro III in a thread about Kyro III? As for it being dead, that's extremely unlikely.

 

[relativity]

Err, this thread is all about Kyro III, so why should people stop talking about Kyro III in a thread about Kyro III? As for it being dead, that's extremely unlikely.

Ok, why isn't KyroIII effectively dead? STM owns the KyroIII brand!
STM failed to go through with its attempted sale of the Graphics Product
Division. About half the team was made redundant both in Bristol and
in San Jose. Rest of the team was redeployed in other division within
STM. This I know from very good authority; the people that worked
at STM. So, what policy does STM have with re KyroIII? I suspect,
ST will be loathed to give any of its flows to any third party. The chip
also has a significant amount of ST IP, not just IMG IP. Even if
KyroIII has taped out, which I have also heard, is STM willing to put
resources to open the chip up and respin? I have never seen any large
complex chips having first time silicon.

So, what gives us hope that we will see a KyroIII?

If we are really discussing PVR Series 4, then what I meant was,
lets talk about Series 4 and stop confusing ourselves by talking about KyroIII.

 

[Randell]

you hope

Edit BTW that was to Teasy

 

[PVR_Extremist]

I don't want to really get into a argument here, the Kyro III (aka STG5XXX), that I was aware of did not support in hardware vetex or
pixel shaders.

Now, Kristof, can standup and contradict me

Series 4 based stuff was DX 8.0 compliant. At least that was what I was told by VDO themselves. So unless they are having me on (and they haven't deliberately BS'ed me to date) then I have every reason to believe them.

 

[relativity]

PVR_Extremist, who are VDO? The hardware is DX7, ie no vertex and
pixel shaders; but does have high performance hardware T&L.

But I suppose, as with 4800SE, there may have been muttering about
doing the vertex shading in software. STG5000 (ie KyroIII) has no
possibility of doing pixel shading. Now, it is possible to translate many
PS1.0 shaders into multipass rendering. So, do they mean this
mechanism? This combined method will allow some DX8 sharders
to be hardware accelerated, but there is no DX8 dedicated pixel or
vertex shader! Of this I am pretty certain. I have talked to people
who used to work at STM.

 

[ActionNews]

PVR_Extremist, who are VDO? The hardware is DX7, ie no vertex and
pixel shaders; but does have high performance hardware T&L.

But I suppose, as with 4800SE, there may have been muttering about
doing the vertex shading in software. STG5000 (ie KyroIII) has no
possibility of doing pixel shading. Now, it is possible to translate many
PS1.0 shaders into multipass rendering. So, do they mean this
mechanism? This combined method will allow some DX8 sharders
to be hardware accelerated, but there is no DX8 dedicated pixel or
vertex shader! Of this I am pretty certain. I have talked to people
who used to work at STM.

VDO = Videologic , which is (like PowerVR) a part of ImgTec ! I think they should know it best !

CU ActionNews

PS: If Series 4 doen't have any Pixel and Vertex Shader, it would be better if we never see any KyroIII ! For this case i'd better wait for Series5!

 

[Teasy]

Ok, why isn't KyroIII effectively dead? STM owns the KyroIII brand!

Oh so your talking about the name itself not the technology?, well that's hardly important. If STM never sold their Kyro III name and so no'one could make a chip called Kyro III that wouldn't make Kyro III dead, it would just go by another name.

STM failed to go through with its attempted sale of the Graphics Product Division.

Wether they did or didn't is irrelivent, they can still sell the chip and name, even if they didn't that wouldn't make Kyro III dead. It might make the name itself dead but not the technology behind it (Series 4).

About half the team was made redundant both in Bristol and
in San Jose. Rest of the team was redeployed in other division within
STM.

Yes that is true, it was done quite a while ago now, then again a division does not only include workers. Their is still the Kyro III chip, PowerVR licences ect, although of course the same licences can be gotten from IMGTEC themselves, but not the finished Kyro III chips.

So, what gives us hope that we will see a KyroIII?

Considering your comment below, at the moment their isn't much solid info that gives me that much hope of actually seeing the STM Series 4 chip. I just meant we will see Series 4 chips.

If we are really discussing PVR Series 4, then what I meant was,
lets talk about Series 4 and stop confusing ourselves by talking about KyroIII.

Oh I see, ok then, I misunderstood you.

you hope

I don't think hope has anything to do with it, its extremely unlikely that IMGTEC will throw away an entire generation of development work. I'm sure they'll use Series 4 wether its in the PC space, mobile devices or arcade.

 

[PVR_Extremist]

PVR_Extremist, who are VDO? The hardware is DX7, ie no vertex and
pixel shaders; but does have high performance hardware T&L.

But I suppose, as with 4800SE, there may have been muttering about
doing the vertex shading in software. STG5000 (ie KyroIII) has no
possibility of doing pixel shading. Now, it is possible to translate many
PS1.0 shaders into multipass rendering. So, do they mean this
mechanism? This combined method will allow some DX8 sharders
to be hardware accelerated, but there is no DX8 dedicated pixel or
vertex shader! Of this I am pretty certain. I have talked to people
who used to work at STM.

VDO = Videologic. VDO are part of IMGTEC who own PowerVR Technologies.

As I said, that was what I was told. I can't guarantee it's absolute truth much the same as you cannot with your STM contacts.

In the PC space at least we will probably never know

 

[Dave B(TotalVR)]

VDO are videologic, i.e. Imagination Technologies, the people that make the technology.

 

[Captain Chickenpants]

http://www.imgtec.com/about/about.htm

 

[ActionNews]

It semms that KyroII SE isn't dead at all !

Yesterday FOCUS Enhancements anounced that Hercules will use the FOCUS FS451 TV Chip on thier 3D Prophet 4800 ! So KyroII SE should be ready somehow !

Here is a link to the press release: http://www.focusinfo.com/company/pr_new/270602_hercules.htm !

The FS451 provides performance characteristics such as perfect TV sizing, artifact-free scaling, broadcast quality encoding and sharpness-enhanced flicker filtering, easy integration, fast performance and superior video quality for big screen users who like to display PC-based video applications on their TVs.

Sounds impressive !

CU ActionNews

PS: Perhaps there is a chance that we see a KyroIII or Series 4 based card too !

 

[RobTuck]

The last word I had from Hercules (which was quite recently) is that the 4800 is due for launch in mid-July. So thats about two to three weeks-ish.

If I get anything more solid, Ill be sure to post it here and on our front page.

 

[Dave B(TotalVR)]

Cool, why was my email notification to this thread in German though?