Kojima "Blu-Ray is too small for Metal Gear Solid 4."
- Thread starter almighty
- Start date
Is Kojima mad? 25gb is'nt enough
Link
Guess this kinda rule's out the thought of a 360 version later on?
Classic - I don't think this rules out a 360 version as the game is linear and could easilyspan multiple discs.
I wonder how much mgs4 is going to cost Konami to make though - any idea on how big their dev team is and when they started development? 25gb is a lot of data!
that quoted article said:
Well, the so-called "A/V enthusiast" crowd (specimens frequently seen on AVS Forum) DEMANDS uncompressed audio for their movies, and sees the failure to provide it as the ultimate doom of HD DVD. Uncompressed audio is about 10x the size of compressed audio, and is relatively cheap to produce (compared to all other types of assets).
As someone who still watches movies and plays games through the built-in speakers of a 5-year old cheap TV, I think this is complete bullshit, and I will gladly accept a "much inferior" version with compressed audio, if that's what it takes to see it on the 360.
Says who ? certainly not kojima from what i read in interviews about what he's planning to do with mgs 4.
I sure koji himself is partially funding the project also and
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Well if you want a shitload of pre-renderd movies in the game like japanese devs like to do than yes it probably wont be enough. But in terms of game content you probably have to try pretty hard to fill 25gb. Atleast I think in the end not a awfull lot of games will truly need 25gb or more.
Naboomagnoli
Newcomer
That'd be a first for a Metal Gear Solid game.
25 gb won't be enough...and here's why (and it's not prerendered video):
-Huge streaming worlds demand lots of data redundancy on a disc with slow seek time. MGS4 is supposedly completely open like GTA this time (segmented into areas/levels of course), but highly detailed and interactive like a 1st person shooter.
-High-quality, uncompressed audio (lot's of it)
-Language support for most countries (more audio/dubbing)
-Huge streaming worlds demand lots of data redundancy on a disc with slow seek time. MGS4 is supposedly completely open like GTA this time (segmented into areas/levels of course), but highly detailed and interactive like a 1st person shooter.
-High-quality, uncompressed audio (lot's of it)
-Language support for most countries (more audio/dubbing)
You beat me to it on that one, even if there is such a thing why would it make a jot of difference if your 50GB is on one or two layers, the linked quote apparently relates to something from 1up, it has to be some sort of misquote.
OK, an interesting point here. If BluRay has a constant read speed, surely the differences in seek time (ie, the time it takes for the laser to move to read the next area of disc) should be absolutely negligable compared to the speed-up in read time (ie, the time it takes to take the data from the disc).
If they need more space for padding on a BR disc... what the hell?? There goes what I considered likely the biggest advantage of Blu-Ray.
Unless of course that bullet point is just nonsense, and the "uncompressed audio" is the key here. Surely the uncompressed nature of audio, however, would just kill their RAM requirements, though, right?
I bolded what is likely the real list. The other point is conjecture on your part; I mean, what was Oblivion, if not an RPG version of GTA? (I know the Oblivion argument is tired, but it's an existence proof that holds).
As for uncompressed audio, I find this to be a huge stretch in terms of how it benefits anyone, other than the ultra-niche audiophiles-who-are-gamers market. The multilanguage one is definitely a benefit for publishers as it should ease some localization overhead; I'm guessing for the larger publishers they might realize tens of thousands of dollars in savings by reducing something or other in the distribution pipeline.
Finally, someone needs to update either Kojima or that reporter; the 50 gig BD is dual layer, that's how they get to 50.
They needed to use Megatexturing technology
Anyhow, any game going with a large variety and number textures also needs to account for system memory and bandwidth. This is one reason the PS3 has a HDD, which should help some with larger streaming worlds.Were MGS2 or MGS3 considerably larger than their peers? I cannot recall.
Anyway, overrunning 25 GB based on sound data is... a lot of sound. It seems to me that you'd have to go out of your way to find enough sound to make that happen.
It seems more reasonable that they'd need more space because of art assets (which are FAR bigger per asset), but you'd need a fantastically huge art budget to make that happen.
Anyway, overrunning 25 GB based on sound data is... a lot of sound. It seems to me that you'd have to go out of your way to find enough sound to make that happen.
It seems more reasonable that they'd need more space because of art assets (which are FAR bigger per asset), but you'd need a fantastically huge art budget to make that happen.
Great news IMO. It's great to hear that a developer is taking advantage of Blu-ray and the PS3 powerful technologies. I have a feeling that more developers will do the same
I'm really glad that Sony included Blu-ray and HDD in the PS3 as standard, this gives developers more space and freedom.
I'm really glad that Sony included Blu-ray and HDD in the PS3 as standard, this gives developers more space and freedom.
Uncompressed audio? Hah! If the so called audiophiles had any sense, they would not be screaming for uncompressed audio. Instead they should scream for losslessly compressed audio at obscene bit rates and sample rates.
Regular people would want lossy compressed audio at obscene bit rates and sample rates.
Come to think of it, maybe those HD-DVDs and Blu-ray discs with uncompressed audio should come bundled with some Brilliant Pebbles.
Regular people would want lossy compressed audio at obscene bit rates and sample rates.
Come to think of it, maybe those HD-DVDs and Blu-ray discs with uncompressed audio should come bundled with some Brilliant Pebbles.
DigitalSoul
Regular
With games like FF, sure. Kojima has never use pre-rendered movies in the MGS games.
If that linear game lasts 10-20 hours and its on 4 disks count me out
Even with a constant rate, the lens still has to physically move back and forth. With well planned redundancy it won't have to move as much.
Anyhow.... I see Kojima's comments coming from a few different angles-
-Selfish Developer: He realizes that the resource is available to him and starts using it to it's maximum. In this case, the resource is a BD and he's using it for quality audio. He's inclined to use it to full capacity. When he's aware that there's some greater resource just out of reach (BD50) he gets vocal about how he wants it, because he can use it. I call it selfish because it's not something that's neccesarily going to benefit the user. It's for his own satisfaction.
-Towing the coroarate line: He seems (to me) to be strongly in favor of Sony's success. Throwing out comments like this don't hurt the cause.
-Communication breakdown: These sort of comments go thru several channels before they get to the public and more often than not, they are innaccurate or misleading to some degree. Especially when they start out in Japanese. It's so common for a developer to say something and either he doesn't get the correct meaning out or it gets misquoted or taken out of context or whatever. For example, if he really meant that he could use a 50gb disc if he wanted to. Or perhaps if audio was just an offhand example and there where alot of other assets filling up the disc.
Overall, I hope he is taking advantage of the disc and I hope others do, too. The only significant technical "gap" between the PS3 and 360 seems to e the disc media. This is nice for us interested in the technical stuff because it creates a control environment to see if bigger media alone can make for more technically impressive games. If, 3 years form now, BD games are just stuffing the disc with hi quality audio, language tracks, and hd video, then I think it's safe to say that the bigger storage media was not very beneficial. Here's hoping the games of tomorrow will take advantage of the space in truly meaningful ways and be better for it.
