Kinect and Oculus Rift

[baten]

The main problem with Occulus Rift and Xbox One is having to run a DVI or HDMI cable to the headset. Unless you're setup at a desk, sitting beside your Xbox, there really isn't no convenient way to connect the two devices together. That's the main reason why Occulus Rift support on consoles will be limited. That is unless they can compress the video stream to a reasonable quality and send it to the Occulus Rift via wireless. That would assume there would be a wireless version of Occulus Rift with video decoding. Doesn't seem likely.

Not necessarly. See, I am an old user of such things. I had an Olympus Eye Trek for about 6 years (bad quality image 200x300 px, and poor construction, it literally came apart in the end, I had to use all sort of tapes and strings to stick it to my head, but it was OK with my PS2). Now for about one year I have the HMZ-T2 (which is an absolute joy, image quality beats my 50' top of the range Panasonic plasma in blacks and 3D quality).
Dot assume the setup is the same. Since you dont need the TV anymore to play, you can have your console basically anywhere. Like near the bed and play laying down. This is what I do now. But the cable is really long, since you have the HDMI up to the driver of the HMZ-T2, and the the actual cable from the driver(unit) to the headset, over 4meter if you add them up.

So OR would fit well like this, however, Kinect would not.
Now, I dont assume too many people will play like this (laying down) but many play on the couch or in an armchair, and this is similar enough.
I see the OR as a next step in gaming, but it seems the Kinect is also a next step (remember "it changes everything"?).
But what if they are mutually exclusive? What would you pick if you would be pushed to?

 

[baten]

No, HMZ-T3 should be something else. That's a modified HMZ-T2.

Maybe the electronics are the same, but the difference in headset desing is huge! Just when I look at it, it appears to solve all the little nagging stability and comfort problems that I have now with my T2.

I'm thinking the T3 could be an upgraded electronics (basically 1080p) coupled with THIS headset design.

Actually, please read this article, summs up things quite nicely:

http://www.roadtovr.com/2013/08/03/...-new-hmd-hmm-3000mt-designed-for-surgery-7343

 

[Silent_Buddha]

But what if they are mutually exclusive? What would you pick if you would be pushed to?

Kinect. I've been trying head mounted displays off and on since the mid 90's, almost 2 decades now. Other than the initial WOW factor, prolonged use has a lot of issues with head mounted displays.

I am intrigued by the Occulus Rift, however, since it offers a wider FOV that should fill more of your vision when wearing it. But other than that, I doubt it solves many of the other issues the crop up with HMDs when used for a prolonged period of time (few hours).

But as I pointed out, there's no reason they are mutually exclusive. In fact, they are Extremely well suited to each other. In the past the only way to get full body control with a HMD was for a bodysuit with sensors or an elaborate body tracking system. And things start to get pretty darn expensive when you go that route.

At a minimum for a nice VR experience with a HMD, you need at least torso tracking and somewhat accurate arm and fairly accurate hand tracking. Actually if you can track the hands well enough you can get away with "most" things. So PS Move controllers would work for most of the basic stuff. Trying to use standard controllers in a VR environment where you can interact with things is a nightmare.

Regards,
SB

 

[baten]

At a minimum for a nice VR experience with a HMD, you need at least torso tracking and somewhat accurate arm and fairly accurate hand tracking. Actually if you can track the hands well enough you can get away with "most" things. So PS Move controllers would work for most of the basic stuff. Trying to use standard controllers in a VR environment where you can interact with things is a nightmare.

Regards,
SB

If in the VR you are a person interacting with things, than I fully agree, Kinect fits like a charm with the OR. Think about playing Going Home like that.

But think for a moment about playing Mirror's Edge through OR. You simply cannot do that without a controller. I mean you could, but not for more than 10-15 minutes.
You need a controler to jump and to slide and do 180 turns with any kind of precision.
Now, let me tell you - MirrorsEdge is amazing even with only the HMZ, I can hardly imagine how awsome it could be with OR in 3D...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

1280x800 is what they've been shipping, but they showed a 1080p model recently

IIRC they were using a Nexus 7 screen, and now the N7 has had an update, I presume they are making the switch. Which is of course half res for each eye, 920x1080. A moments Googlage says there'll be both versions available.

 

[mrcorbo]

I a good controller for use in combination with camera-based motion tracking would fit inside your palm (with your hand closed around it) with an analog stick on top (to be operated by your thumb) and the buttons placed under your other four fingers. It would also have a strap that would keep it attached to your hand allowing you to also use your hand to perform motion control gestures like waving, opening and closing your hand, pointing, etc. Could even double the control surfaces by having one for the left and one for the right hand.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Not necessarly. See, I am an old user of such things. I had an Olympus Eye Trek for about 6 years (bad quality image 200x300 px, and poor construction, it literally came apart in the end, I had to use all sort of tapes and strings to stick it to my head, but it was OK with my PS2). Now for about one year I have the HMZ-T2 (which is an absolute joy, image quality beats my 50' top of the range Panasonic plasma in blacks and 3D quality).
Dot assume the setup is the same. Since you dont need the TV anymore to play, you can have your console basically anywhere. Like near the bed and play laying down. This is what I do now. But the cable is really long, since you have the HDMI up to the driver of the HMZ-T2, and the the actual cable from the driver(unit) to the headset, over 4meter if you add them up.

So OR would fit well like this, however, Kinect would not.
Now, I dont assume too many people will play like this (laying down) but many play on the couch or in an armchair, and this is similar enough.
I see the OR as a next step in gaming, but it seems the Kinect is also a next step (remember "it changes everything"?).
But what if they are mutually exclusive? What would you pick if you would be pushed to?

I'm just saying the living room setup and Occulus Right don't really work well together. You kind of have to have your console dedicated to Occulus Rift, but not everything is going to support it. Would you want to keep moving your HDMI cable from your tv to your Occulus Rift? Would you sit on the floor beside your console because the cable doesn't reach your sofa? If you go Occulus Rift, you sort of need to be dedicated to it, but unless everything supported it, that would be kind of a tough choice.

 

[patsu]

Maybe the electronics are the same, but the difference in headset desing is huge! Just when I look at it, it appears to solve all the little nagging stability and comfort problems that I have now with my T2.

I'm thinking the T3 could be an upgraded electronics (basically 1080p) coupled with THIS headset design.

Actually, please read this article, summs up things quite nicely:

http://www.roadtovr.com/2013/08/03/...-new-hmd-hmm-3000mt-designed-for-surgery-7343

Rumor is T3 has a wireless component. It was sent for certification.

As for controls, they will need a controller for footwork in a VR game. There is no room for walking.

Extending your hands out in prolonged use is impractical too. The players will also need something to hang on to. Otherwise the experience will be too floaty, and dizzy when the user turns quickly or frequently.

 

[itsmydamnation]

I'm just saying the living room setup and Occulus Right don't really work well together. You kind of have to have your console dedicated to Occulus Rift, but not everything is going to support it. Would you want to keep moving your HDMI cable from your tv to your Occulus Rift? Would you sit on the floor beside your console because the cable doesn't reach your sofa? If you go Occulus Rift, you sort of need to be dedicated to it, but unless everything supported it, that would be kind of a tough choice.

i see no reason why OR cant be wireless ( still connected for power). you guys are overestimating the bandwidth requirements. just run in the 5ghz space. 40mhz 2 spacial streams ,thats 300mbit, real world ~140mbit for a two transceiver WLAN . a bit of dedicated hardware to do h265 on both ends and you are well and truly done.

 

[patsu]

H.265 will use twice the power compared to H.264. Can't they do it with H.264 ?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Would compression artifacts have ruinous results with something like an HMD? Also I think you'd want wifi direct, or people with the correct equipment could still have problems because of the location of their wireless router in their home.

 

[patsu]

[shrug] Make a Gaikai chip ? It's based on H.264.

 

[baten]

I dont believe on the wireless thing, but for another reason - and that is that the batteries inside the headset would make it too heavy. It is heavy as it is, and after a few hours you can really feel the pressure.
Add another 100g and it will be too much...

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Heh I haven't really paid attention to this HTZ-T2, but I'm getting pretty hyped up over here . Baten can you give more detailed impressions on it. What's the resolution like? The little I've read about it makes me feel like it's one resolution bump away from being EXACTLY what I want, but it sounds like the PPI is already pretty damn high on a 0.7" display with a 720p resolution, so is 1080p a realistic expectation in a near future model? Does this thing work well with a PC?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It uses tiny OLED displays, for which there's little market and technological progress in contrast to large screens as Occulus Rift uses. The HMZ has a 0.7" screen per eye. That's about 2000 dpi. 1080p will require about 3000 dpi, or larger displays. The only market I know of requiring such tiny screens are electronic viewfinders for cameras, and VR headsets of course, so I don't expect rapid progress in this field.

 

[patsu]

Heh I haven't really paid attention to this HTZ-T2, but I'm getting pretty hyped up over here . Baten can you give more detailed impressions on it. What's the resolution like? The little I've read about it makes me feel like it's one resolution bump away from being EXACTLY what I want, but it sounds like the PPI is already pretty damn high on a 0.7" display with a 720p resolution, so is 1080p a realistic expectation in a near future model? Does this thing work well with a PC?

It's best to try it yourself. ^_^

First time I tried it, was blown away completely. It was hard to wear the gear properly. But once you found the sweetspot, it is like seeing things with your own eyes. My eyes felt natural but wide open in disbelief. There was no stress or fatigue in my eyes too.

Besides the difficulty in putting on the gear and its weight, I'd say the floatiness is the next problem. You may need to sit down and play games. When I turned quickly, it felt dizzy without head tracking. My brain was expecting my view to change when I turned but of course it didn't.

With head tracking, I suspect it will still be "floaty", like on a boat.

 

[tuna]

Compression will increase latency which Carmack does not like.

 

[patsu]

It is inevitable if the vendors roll out Gaikai like services.

 

[baten]

Heh I haven't really paid attention to this HTZ-T2, but I'm getting pretty hyped up over here . Baten can you give more detailed impressions on it. What's the resolution like? The little I've read about it makes me feel like it's one resolution bump away from being EXACTLY what I want, but it sounds like the PPI is already pretty damn high on a 0.7" display with a 720p resolution, so is 1080p a realistic expectation in a near future model? Does this thing work well with a PC?

When you try T2 for the first time it may seem a little underwhelming. Basically it's just a big TV glued to your forehead, and - if you head does not fit Sony's ideea of what a head should be and where your eyes should be located, like it happened to me - you will have some trouble finding the sweet spot to see a full clear image. Wearing glasses didnt help me also, btw.

But it grows on you, and I knew it will, since I used an Olimpus Eyetrek for around 7 years.

A couple of weeks later I was able to find the sweet-spot in seconds, of course I use some straping and extra padding for a more comfortable wear. The only negative is that my overtheear headphones dont fit with this, so I have to use in-ear (through my DSS2 chip - the T2 can do 5.1 but not as good as the DSS2).

The resolution is full 720p, and when you hit the sweetspot you can actually see the pixels (not as much as with the Oculus Rift, but they are there).

It does not fill completely the field of vision, but it looks much bigger than me 50' plasma from 2 meters away (about 30-40% more on the diagonal).

But the quality of the image is better than anything I know of. The colors and levels of black are incredible, and - when watching 3D movies or playing 3D games - there are, of course, no artifacts, so it's the best way, so far, to enjoy 3D, there is nothing on the market right now that offers better 3D quality. Before purchasing I spent some time on AVForums on this matter and people there agree to this.

Again, this is not for everybody. It is simply too expensive, it costed me 900€ which was very hard to explain to the wife - for a device that only I can use and that takes me away from her when I use it.

However, it is a taste of things to come.

When they add some headtracking, improve the strappings (like in that surgical variant), add a little tuning for people with glasses, and make it 1080p, at half price - everybody will want one.

edit - it works with anything that has a HDMI output...

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Thank you!

I'll probably have to go to some nearby Sony Center to check it out if they have it on display. This and the Oculus Rift definitely have my attention at the moment.