Is it possible to program for the Wii/GC without ever using the TEV?

[DeadlyNinja]

I saw this interview about a game, and they asked a really weird question and got an even weirder answer.

RG: For shader effects, there’s that unit in the Wii called the TEV, which seems that nobody is using it this generation, and just a little group of studios used it on GameCube. How difficult is to program your own effects instead of using “registered trademark” shaders on the other consoles?

Martin: Actually, that’s part of the engine that we’ve licensed, we’ve been developing, and we’ve been working with. This engine is already operating all this shaders at is own, so we don’t use the stuff that is offered on the Wii on board to its 100%, to the maximum. But actually, that is a bit too technical for me. The thing is, the engine should be improved, it belongs to the company we’re working with, and they sent the Press Release."

The first bold part: Is it possible to do the graphics without ever using the TEV? Doesn't even the simplest thing uses the TEV to some extent? Like say even if you want to make something transparent you'd have to use the TEV, right? Just cause they're shaders doesn't necessarily mean it has to look mind-blowing or eye catching. Is he confused or am I confused?

The second one makes it sound like they're ignoring whatever the heck that's built into the system and wrote their own shaders. I thought that was impossible. Then again, the guy doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about either.

 

[fearsomepirate]

You're reading way, way, way too much into it. It's like saying "I'm not using my brain," which obviously doesn't mean that my central nervous system has stopped controlling my lungs and heart. Not everything is a rigorous technical statement to be dissected according to the most exacting definitions of the words

 

[DeadlyNinja]

Well, I was trying to figure out if I can learn anything from this, but I guess I was reading too much into it.

 

[Squachy]

That statement only means the TEV is not being utilized to its full effect.
Its like having a big large entertainment room with a full surround sound system, giant LCD HDTV screen, comfy couches and you know, the room just owns. But you never use it because
1.) You spend most of your time in say the office or computer room.
2.) The room is in a less desirable location although it could be the largest one there.
3.) you dont sit around watching TV during your off times, you spend it in the garage working on your car.

You may invite a few friends over, watch a movie, the big game on TV or something like that, but otherwise it goes pretty much unused.

 

[Flux]

So let me guess....


They are either not using the TEV or using it in limited capacity?(kind of like GC with only 3-4 games really used it well) Is it that hard to do high-end effects on?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They are either not using the TEV or using it in limited capacity?(kind of like GC with only 3-4 games really used it well)

Yes, or like VU0 (is that the right one?!) on PS2, which most developers didn't bother to optimise for.

Is it that hard to do high-end effects on?

What do you mean by 'high end effects'? The major problem is straight lack of processing power from Hollywood to churn out fancy effects. The high overhead of of texture combining versus complex shader hardware also makes the processing power that is there not travel so far. Graphics hardware has moved on so far since the PS2/GC era, that using a such a retro design was...novel.

 

[Flux]

Yes, or like VU0 (is that the right one?!) on PS2, which most developers didn't bother to optimise for.
What do you mean by 'high end effects'? The major problem is straight lack of processing power from Hollywood to churn out fancy effects. The high overhead of of texture combining versus complex shader hardware also makes the processing power that is there not travel so far. Graphics hardware has moved on so far since the PS2/GC era, that using a such a retro design was...novel.

Your opinion is noted. Without accurate or existing documentation on the Wii we are guessing. There are also reports of people not using the TEV. I mean if you didn't use the vortex processing in modern GPUs how good do you think the picture would look at 30fps? Its like GC if only 2-3 developers really use the TEV to its strengths then there is something wrong. I mean Wii games should look at least 50% better than rouge squadron,RE0,RE4,or SMS on GC. But it doesn't. Why is that? Why doesn't most games look as good as SMG?

 

[Tx]

I too was wondering why Wii games seems to not use the full potential of the TEV hardware.

I think it's due to the particular market segment that this console is aiming to.

With a Wii you want to have fun with friends, to use in creative ways the remote controller. And the budget on this games seems much more slim than the one available other platforms.

If users will buy the game anyway it's not rewarding to spend lot of time working with TEV.
Anyway I hope some devs will start using it more.
Games could look much better.

 

[assen]

Your opinion is noted. Without accurate or existing documentation on the Wii we are guessing.

You are going to stomp your feet and repeat that forever, or until somebody decide to breach their NDA... guess which will come first?

There are also reports of people not using the TEV.

You can't get a pixel on the screen without using the TEV, anymore than you can run a program on the CPU without using the execution units.

I mean Wii games should look at least 50% better than rouge squadron,RE0,RE4,or SMS on GC. But it doesn't. Why is that? Why doesn't most games look as good as SMG?

Because there is no competitive pressure. Wii games aren't competing on "who uses TEV the best". For every SMG sold, Nintendo sells ten Wii Sports, Wii Plays, Wii Fits and Wario Whatevers. Nintendo are setting the expectations around them.

The Wii CPU and GPU are crappy, but the real reason the games look like that are not the CPU and GPU. It's Wii Sports.

 

[Flux]

Yeah the evil Wiisports Wiimusic...


Its like if Sony did the same thing you would be chearing them on.But since nintendo achieved this feat you just go on hating on them for it. Don't hate appreciate.

Typical console manufacturer double standards and bias. I remember that with Genesis vs SNES and DC vs PS2. Same fallacy different company.