Iraqi interim constitution

[Sabastian]

Don't let the Qua'arn's 'encroachment' in Iraq distract you from the Bible's encroachment right in your own backyard. I've never seen a nation that wears the Bible on its sleeves like the USA. Can a politician have a speech without invoking God? In most nations, a person who brings up God might get chuckles, but in America, most politicans actually get *applause*. You also get reporters from the Liberal Media asking questions like "Is God still on America's side?" Where did she study journalism? Bob Jones?

Here is an example of the left wings obsession wrt criticizing the US. IIRC there are numerous states throughout the mid east, Asia and Africa where the leaders are blatantly religious. But not only is it unjust that a growing portion of overzealous left wing followers point at the US and cry bloody murder at every turn but this also smacks of elitism and intolerance towards religious sentiment. As for the use of the word god in speeches I don't see what all the fuss is about. Get over it ..

 

[epicstruggle]

Ashcroft, yeah he's the problem, not the people blowing up buildings/people.
later,
epic

 

[Willmeister]

Are you insinuating somehow that my priorities are out of whack?

Talk to Ashcroft. Instead of busting Al Qaeda members at flight schools, he obsessed over medicinal marijuana in California...

 

[epicstruggle]

Are you insinuating somehow that my priorities are out of whack?

Talk to Ashcroft. Instead of busting Al Qaeda members at flight schools, he obsessed over medicinal marijuana in California...

I didnt see janet reno doing anything about it either? Your priorities are out of whack. So he prays in the morning. Unless he is forcing others to, I have no problem. Im confident in my religious belief, and wont be swayed by those who pray around me. Im glad he does a bit of soul searching before begining his day, maybe it will make sure he does a good job everyday.

later,
epic

 

[Willmeister]

As for my priorities, and since you directly challenged them, where oh where my pretty have I said that Ashcroft was more of a problem than 'people blowing up buildings/people?"

I don't ever recall ranking anything. The only reason I brought Ashcroft up was to show that religion is on the increase in our governments. There's a Russian saying "people who keep looking over their shoulder for a knife will never see themselves getting knifed in the chest". People should be paying attention to Ayatollahs on the other side of the planet, but they should also bear in mind we have them here too and the ones here will definitely have more of a direct affect on your life than some cleric in Iraq...

I know a lot of Canadians who obsess over Ashcroft and I always, always point out Stockwell Day.

 

[epicstruggle]

The more you try to steer other nations down the 'correct path' the higher the chance of them blowing themselves up in your own backyard.

There is a slight difference here. We are building a new country here. If we do things right, we might be able to create an enviromnent that will foster goodwill towards all cultures/religions/countries. So we do need to meddle a bit. If we just need to get through this rough patch.

later,
epic

 

[Sabastian]

Are you insinuating somehow that my priorities are out of whack?

If you are obsessed with the president of the US using the word God in his speeches then I would have to say yes. For that matter your paranoia with regards to these men and their religious convictions is also blown out of proportion.

 

[epicstruggle]

As for my priorities, and since you directly challenged them, where oh where my pretty have I said that Ashcroft was more of a problem than 'people blowing up buildings/people?"

I don't ever recall ranking anything...

Challenge accepted.
here is something you said earlier.

Don't let the Qua'arn's 'encroachment' in Iraq distract you from the Bible's encroachment right in your own backyard....

So you apperantly believe that the bible in the US is a bigger problem than the koran in Iraq. If Iraq bases their laws solely on the koran, we will have a big problem. Many new extremist will come out of that country for decades. I hope you see, that your priorities are out of whack. Ashcroft is just a bump in the road. He'll be gone in a few years (or year if bush looses), on the other hand what happens to Iraq will be here for decades.

later,
epic

 

[Willmeister]

Don't let the Qua'arn's 'encroachment' in Iraq distract you from the Bible's encroachment right in your own backyard.

R-E-A-D carefully. It's basically a warning for people to watch out. I don't know how you can construe that this should be prioritized over 'people blowing up buildings/people.'

If Iraq bases their laws solely on the koran, we will have a big problem.

A lot of our laws are based on Judeo-Christian law (take Sunday shopping laws, for example). And if Iraqis take STRICT Qua'arnic law, then there really isn't that much of a problem since a good 95% of it is indistinguishable form ours. A lot of the repressive laws are perversions from the Haddith (the Burqa/veil for example), not the Qua'arn. The Koran's hijab basically says three things, and apply equally to both men and women. 1) Cover the hair, 2) cover the curves of the body, 3) don't walk like a slut / have a sense of decorum. That's it.

The veil arises from two things: traditional dress and a distored passage about Mohammed's wives. Strictly speaking, one could argue that many of these Sharia laws are actualy SATANIC since they put the Haddith (largely the words of the Prophet assembled 150 year after his death) over the Qua'arn (word of God). If the Qua'arn is top-dog, there isn't that much of a problem it's just that I don't know how much emphasis the Haddith has on the people of Iraq. I'm not going to hold my breath though; sociopaths are no doubt scrambling to position themselves in the new Iraq. I'm hoping that Iraq has managed to maintain much of it's old modernity (sp?) though after 12 years of crippling sanctions, I'm not willing to hold my breath. The fact that there was a strong demand for the Qua'arn is, for me, a warning sign.

 

[epicstruggle]

Don't let the Qua'arn's 'encroachment' in Iraq distract you from the Bible's encroachment right in your own backyard.

R-E-A-D carefully. It's basically a warning for people to watch out. I don't know how you can construe that this should be prioritized over 'people blowing up buildings/people.'

Watch out for what, prayer groups? I dont even agree that we have a problem with the bible here in the US. But there is a clear problem with muslim extremists and their views of what should or should not be law.

BTW when was the last time a christian got his way here in the states. It seems like they are getting their asses handed to them daily.

later,
epic

 

[Sabastian]

Don't let the Qua'arn's 'encroachment' in Iraq distract you from the Bible's encroachment right in your own backyard.

R-E-A-D carefully. It's basically a warning for people to watch out.

Yeah you have to watch them Christians.

 

[Willmeister]

Edit: To deal with Sebastian's childish nit-picking and knee-jerk unimaginative 'LOOK! He's claiming conspiracy! See! See!" retort.

BTW when was the last time a christian got his way here in the states.

They get it all the time. We run our show. That's like asking 'when was the last time a hindu got his way here in India' or 'when was the last time a christian got his way here in Canada.' I'm not sure what this comment was aiming for.

Watch out for what, prayer groups? I dont even agree that we have a problem with the bible here in the US.

Prayer groups, (as proposed) faith-based funding for religious charities, etc. Are you adamant that they'll stop there or do you think they'll keep pushing for more? How many of us imaged that faith-based funding would even be publicly espoused by elected leaders? I didn't. I'm not as trusting as you are.

 

[epicstruggle]

BTW when was the last time a christian got his way here in the states.

They get it all the time. They run the show. That's like asking 'when was the last time a hindu got his way here in India' or 'when was the last time a christian got his way here in Canada.' I'm not sure what this comment was aiming for.

Gay marriage: happening as we speak
Abortions: Legal
School Prayers: Banned
Nativity scenes in public spaces: Illegal
Religion in school: Illegal
more examples can be provided if you want

Yes they are getting their way.
later
epic

 

[Willmeister]

Gay marriage: happening as we speak
Abortion: legal
Nativity scenes in public spaces: Illegal
Religion in school: Illegal
more examples can be provided if you want

I'm Christian (and Baptist at that) and I'm all for those, as many do. If we didn't approve of it, we have the power to change any and all of those now couldn't we?

 

[Sabastian]

BTW when was the last time a christian got his way here in the states.

They get it all the time. They run the show.

Here we go..
[spooky background music] the vast-right-wing conspiracy![/spooky background music]

 

[sytaylor]

The law just got passed in france, so if you give those 2 politicians in belgian a little time. im sure it will pass. BTW whose trawling, Im just stating facts from the bbc website. Unless your saying they are trawling. I was just trying to show you that france isnt the only country in the process of putting limits on religious freedom.

Since when does a few rare examples of litageous loopholes, and two belgians (no doubt with pitch forks) equate to putting limits on religous freedom across an entire continent?! Accept it, Europe is on the whole far LESS religiously oppressive than you are suggesting. I personally can't remember the last time the leader of my country refered to god and/or his religion, thats for sure.

 

[epicstruggle]

I personally can't remember the last time the leader of my country refered to god and/or his religion, thats for sure.

Refering to god in a speech does not cause people to spontaneously convert or find religion.

Europe is heading down a dangerous path of religious intolerance. Time will tell who is right/wrong.

later,
epic
ps germany actively discriminates against scientologists. Which is a recognized religion by many

 

[Willmeister]

Refering to god in a speech does not cause people to spontaneously convert or find religion.

We never said it did, but US politicans do use religous imagery more than other Western nations. Either because they're religous, or because they know it will score them political Brownie points (and thus hoodwink people to get their votes). I believe it's more of the latter. Politicos don't do anything without consulting polls first which is why I hold virtually all politicians in such low regard.

From what I've read about Scientology, it's not a religon but merely a bad joke. I hold Yogic flying and the Natural Law party in higher regard than Scientology.

 

[sytaylor]

Refering to god in a speech does not cause people to spontaneously convert or find religion.

Europe is heading down a dangerous path of religious intolerance. Time will tell who is right/wrong.

later,
epic
ps germany actively discriminates against scientologists. Which is a recognized religion by many

It does however show that other religions are not being given equal tolerance. On a national scale, by the leader. To assume that everyone in a secular nation would rally behind the same christian message is a massive sign of this.

There is some stigma around scientology in germany yeah, although I don't have the facts, its not very big this side of the pond though.

 

[Sabastian]

Edit: To deal with Sebastian's childish nit-picking and knee-jerk unimaginative 'LOOK! He's claiming conspiracy! See! See!" retort.

BTW when was the last time a christian got his way here in the states.

They get it all the time. We run our show.

You are claiming that there is some sort of Christian conspiracy that you are a part of that controls the government or what? Man... ??!!