iOS 6

[Lazy8s]

Google would've always made sure Andriod had a competitive advantage in Maps, one of the most important functions/apps of a device that's carried around by its user, and Apple is keen to cut their reliance on Google, their biggest competitive threat, out of iOS as much as is practical. While Google Search isn't going away anytime soon in iOS, Siri makes some strides even on that end.

Apple waited for their own Maps implementation to introduce some much needed enhancements, and using their own set up for the data gives them better flexibility for adding them. My fear, as an iPhone user, is the same as has been mentioned: the search function and location information in the new Maps is not likely to be nearly as powerful nor refined as Google's. I've already been using MapQuest4Mobile on iPhone for voice guided navigation, but I often have to use Google Maps to find a particular address before feeding it into MapQuest4Mobile for the actual navigation.

Street View will also be missed.

The pressure from the increased competition should push all maps apps to finally improve a lot, though.

 

[patsu]

The pressure from the increased competition should push all maps apps to finally improve a lot, though.

Oh so very very true !

I like Apple's open partnership model so that everyone can improve the Maps app. It is not a mutually exclusive arrangement.

I suspect Google will also try to integrate their Maps app into MapKit so that people can toggle between the 2 apps for different features. ;-) (e.g., Google should be working on offline maps now right ?)

In the "Are we there yet ?" demo segment, I was half expecting TripAdvisor or some travel sites to point out sightseeing hotspots along the route/skyline to the kid.

 

[silent_guy]

The new 2D maps (beta, but still) are much inferior to the old ones. Lots and lots of non-details missing. We're not talking smaller fire roads in parks here: most Bay Area *parks* themselves are not there. Not good.

And the local information of schools and other POIs is hopelessly outdated.

And that's for Apple's backyard...

 

[Mize]

Strange since Tom Tom should have all that...

 

[Grall]

Still just a beta release though, with a couple more months to go until launch... Maybe not time just yet to panic?

 

[wco81]

It took years for Google to get the rich dataset it has.

No reason to think it would take Apple less time. I guess the mapping startups it acquired is more in the presentation tech, not in data acquisition.

 

[Arwin]

It took years for Google to get the rich dataset it has.

No reason to think it would take Apple less time. I guess the mapping startups it acquired is more in the presentation tech, not in data acquisition.

No, but TomTom should have all that. I think it's just a matter of integrating the two datasets and how much detail iOS wants to support technically visavis bandwidth requirements and such. TomTom devices typically have the whole database locally so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Pressure]

No, but TomTom should have all that. I think it's just a matter of integrating the two datasets and how much detail iOS wants to support technically visavis bandwidth requirements and such. TomTom devices typically have the whole database locally so that shouldn't be an issue.

Funny enough, all the data is available in the paid TomTom Navigation app in App Store.

 

[Arwin]

Funny enough, all the data is available in the paid TomTom Navigation app in App Store.

I know, we've been using that App for a few years now on our phones for navigation. But that app downloads the whole map locally - 1.6GB and by far my largest iOS app. We also have a TomTom iPhone holder with recharging and GPS amplification that for some reason is no longer properly supported since iOS 5.0, hopeing against better judgment that this means iOS 6 will solve that issue.

 

[silent_guy]

GPS amplification

Does that kind of stuff actually work? I always thought this were snake oil claims, but that's just me being a sceptic by default.

 

[wco81]

It's not GPS amplification it's a separate GPS chipset. I believe in the cradle the apps will use the GPS in the cradle itself when it's docked.

Wow iPad dictation got all of that right!

 

[Arwin]

It's not GPS amplification it's a separate GPS chipset. I believe in the cradle the apps will use the GPS in the cradle itself when it's docked.

Wow iPad dictation got all of that right!

Probably more likely yes. Definitely works.

 

[patsu]

Funny enough, all the data is available in the paid TomTom Navigation app in App Store.

Probably using development database. The data is incomplete when I took a look at it. The production one should/will have more data.

 

[wco81]

Can we assume that the map data they have for turn by turn navigation is going to be useful for the regular Maps.app?

For instance there POIs on my Garmin is a less rich data set than Google Maps, it seems.

 

[patsu]

I didn't attend any MapKit presentation during WWDC. Will have to catch up later. 8^P

 

[Mintmaster]

As for competing with Apple, not likely. Apple competes in profits, not marketshare.

The problem is that the obscene iPhone/iPad profits can't last will erode very soon. Apple doesn't have any unbeatable IP or manufacturing advantage like Intel. Remember when NVidia was bathing in 45%+ gross margins? Once ATI got their shit together with the HD4000 series, that margin dropped in a hurry.

The iPad is going to be squeezed into a $200-300 product in 1-2 years when Win8 tablets inevitably become as cheap as netbooks and are able to run any desktop app you desire. Everyone has caught up to the iPhone and in several ways surpassed it, so it's margins will fall soon as well. They're going to lose their near-unanimous top-dog status, which numbers their days as profit monsters. Don't get me wrong, though, as they'll still sell well and Apple isn't going to be in any trouble.

As for WP8 sales, don't forget that the iPhone sold 6M in its first five quarters and then 7M in the single quarter after that, so things can change in a hurry. The Lumia 900 was the first Win8 phone that wasn't half-assed, and while there are no hard sales figures, it seems to be a top 10 smartphone at least, indicating sales in the millions. Bottom line is that things can change in a hurry, and WP8 is a serious long term threat. Even if Windows 8 is as maligned as Vista, it'll hit 50M sales in early 2013. That's going to be a big driver of Metro apps and WP8 sales. Long term, the ability to run any desktop app on the phone will be an asset, too.

 

[Jubei]

The problem is that the obscene iPhone/iPad profits can't last will erode very soon. Apple doesn't have any unbeatable IP or manufacturing advantage like Intel. Remember when NVidia was bathing in 45%+ gross margins? Once ATI got their shit together with the HD4000 series, that margin dropped in a hurry.

The iPad is going to be squeezed into a $200-300 product in 1-2 years when Win8 tablets inevitably become as cheap as netbooks and are able to run any desktop app you desire. Everyone has caught up to the iPhone and in several ways surpassed it, so it's margins will fall soon as well. They're going to lose their near-unanimous top-dog status, which numbers their days as profit monsters. Don't get me wrong, though, as they'll still sell well and Apple isn't going to be in any trouble.

As for WP8 sales, don't forget that the iPhone sold 6M in its first five quarters and then 7M in the single quarter after that, so things can change in a hurry. The Lumia 900 was the first Win8 phone that wasn't half-assed, and while there are no hard sales figures, it seems to be a top 10 smartphone at least, indicating sales in the millions. Bottom line is that things can change in a hurry, and WP8 is a serious long term threat. Even if Windows 8 is as maligned as Vista, it'll hit 50M sales in early 2013. That's going to be a big driver of Metro apps and WP8 sales. Long term, the ability to run any desktop app on the phone will be an asset, too.

I think you are making the classical mistake of looking at things with specs or node advantages the way a techie would. Apples strength is neither, its the fact that they have created the perception that Apple means premium and high quality with excellent support.

Thats why people stand in line to buy their products. I cant think of anyone doing that for a Nvidia GPU or Intel card ever. Because they know that there is an insane demand for their products, they can afford to spend on their supply chain to get a massive volume of chips to help their margins. Nobody else dares to do this because the risk of not selling enough is there and means they take a serious hit. They will sooner or later use some of those billions to buy up their supply chains and get fairly independent to keep their margins

Microsoft and their partners have 90% of the X86 market. Yet they get slaughtered at the 999$ laptop market by Macbooks. They simply cant get the same margins Apple has. Thats why you wont see a "retina" screen for windows laptops until 1-2 years in the future when its cheap. Because none of the OEMs can take the hit

Apple owns the software and the hardware, they have a product that is insanely popular and people actually want. Microsoft OEMs have to license the software and they have to convince people to buy their products. They will also be up against Android wich has more demand currently and is pushed by the carriers. You can claim Lumia 900 was successfull but keep in mind they gave it away for free at the end and still wont show any real sales numbers.

I think WP8 will most likely take RIMs place in 18-24 months. But claiming more than that is pretty optimistic

 

[silent_guy]

The problem is that the obscene iPhone/iPad profits can't last will erode very soon.

I believe that's what they said about the iPod for years. All that was needed was a competitor who'd come out with slightly more features. It never happened (the competitor taking over, that is.)

Apple doesn't have any unbeatable IP or manufacturing advantage like Intel.

They have the best supply chain in the world. They are only ones, except Samsung, who can spend many billions up front to ensure first access to the latest and greatest tech (flash, LCD, ...). They control so many production facilities that others simply can't get the capacity needed to produce unibody aluminum enclosures. They also have a database with 400M accounts that are linked to a credit card, which, in turn, gives access to one of the most desirable sets to IP (music and apps.)

Remember when NVidia was bathing in 45%+ gross margins? Once ATI got their shit together with the HD4000 series, that margin dropped in a hurry.

Nvidia's gross margins have been at ~50% the last year or so? Without AMD dropping the ball on GPUs. Frankly, I don't think the margins of a silicon vendor are relevant in this.

The iPad is going to be squeezed into a $200-300 product in 1-2 years when Win8 tablets inevitably become as cheap as netbooks and are able to run any desktop app you desire.

I could understand the argument that tablets in general will start to flatten out in terms of features that make upgrading a slam dunk. I'm not so sure people are waiting for an iPad like device to run all desktop app. Maybe. I'm pretty sure it will be a long time before I'd advise my mom to use anything but an iPad.

Everyone has caught up to the iPhone and in several ways surpassed it, so it's margins will fall soon as well.

Honestly, I don't think many people care. I'm fully aware that you can do some things with an Android phone that you can't with an iPhone, but they're not enough to make me want to switch a full household. Those surpassed features are small incremental items that don't make a whole lot of difference for most people.

They're going to lose their near-unanimous top-dog status, which numbers their days as profit monsters.

Maybe. But let's keep the iPod history in mind.

As for WP8 sales, don't forget that the iPhone sold 6M in its first five quarters and then 7M in the single quarter after that, so things can change in a hurry. The Lumia 900 was the first Win8 phone that wasn't half-assed, and while there are no hard sales figures, it seems to be a top 10 smartphone at least, indicating sales in the millions.

I saw my first Lumia in the wild today!

 

[Grall]

The iPad is going to be squeezed into a $200-300 product in 1-2 years when Win8 tablets inevitably become as cheap as netbooks

For $2-300 you're going to get a non-IPS, 1280-rez pad with a plastic shell. Not something comparable to Apple's retina display and aluminium unibody. Don't forget that in that $200 - or even 300! - price you're gonna have to include the price of a (rumored) $50+ windows license, taking a huge chunk out of your hardware budget, even before profit margins. It's going to make a big difference in build quality and overall selection of components.

and are able to run any desktop app you desire.

Any app, really? Please. Not on a tablet you won't. Windows desktop apps don't work (well) with touch interfaces, so no you won't, not unless you like to torture yourself by stabbing knitting needles into your body...

The Lumia 900 was the first Win8 phone that wasn't half-assed

You probably mean WP7, but OK.

and while there are no hard sales figures, it seems to be a top 10 smartphone at least, indicating sales in the millions.

I'd say it's rather telling they haven't released any figures. If it was selling well, wouldn't they brag about it? http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/collection/1671/top_10_cell_phones.html lists the 900 at tenth place on the top-10 list so I wouldn't draw too far-reaching conclusions; this was back in may though, so no idea how sales may have developed since then.

 

[Arwin]

I agree for you on the most part, but you can get a 1GB IPS 1024 pad for less than $199 already today.