Interview with Epics Tim Sweeny

[AlNom]

Where did he said that? Specially given that UE2 is such a bad engine for GC/Wii.

He didn't say that exactly, but the meaning is there. The main point is that Epic won't support Wii development at the moment (or at the time of the interviews if you want to be picky).

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=146449

Before we finish up: did Epic ever get that Wii dev kit?

Mark Rein: (laughs) I can't say, I'm under NDA with Nintendo. But I can tell you that we're not doing, internally any development right now on the Wii. The Wii I'm sure is going to be a fantastic machine and sell really well but it's kind of below - it's not Intel integrated graphics but it's pretty far bellow the kind of min-bar of Unreal Engine 3. If you built a PC with that spec it wouldn't really be capable of playing an Unreal Engine 3 games decently. They're aiming at clearly at different audience that what we are. You know, Unreal Engine 3 can't run on Xbox 1 or PS2 either - and that's not to say that some of our licensees wont find a way to shoe-horn it into that platform, we certainly have some licensees that are doing some experiments in that area and it could very well happen. But that's a really tough job. And one thing that has become public knowledge in the last little while is that Ubisoft's game Red Steel is using Unreal Engine 2, so there will be Unreal Engine games on the Wii. There will be Unreal Engine games on the Wii and hopefully they'll be successful and maybe we'll make a little money from it, but Unreal Engine 3 - that's a little below our target platform.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/08/mark-rein-says-no-unreal-engine-3-for-wii/

"Ummmmm, well, this is kinda a high definition engine. Designed for a certain level of graphics card and certain amount of CPU. You know, I'm sure one of our licensees will squeeze it down into the Wii. The way Ubisoft squeezed Unreal Engine 2 into the PSP," he explained in a little bit more detail exactly why the Wii and Unreal Engine 3 won't become best buddies, "Unreal Engine 3 is designed for a high level shader architecture and the Wii doesn't have that. I mean, you know, it's just not what we've been aiming for, so it's not something we're looking to do or support."

 

[Cyan]

There are two low ends. Low end that you can buy new today, and the low end of the entire PC user base. They are two very different things.

For example the Xbox 360 is around the mid range compared to a gaming PC you could buy new today, however its very near the top end compared to the entire PC user base.

Unfortunatly thats why we still get crappy PS2/Wii ports like Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds End

Most people buy laptops nowadays. So it means that 70% of PC users don't play games.

Those who buy fully loaded top of the line PCs are interested gamers but it doesn't mean that they purchase every game they play.

It looks to me that, sadly or not, PC gaming golden era is gone forever.

 

[Skrying]

PC gaming has been increasing as of late, and it will continue to do so. The PC is now often getting ports from the graphics based consoles (360/PS3) and as Microsoft's Games for Windows campaign picks up it will simply be easier and more logical to support the PC as a gaming device. While a PC will never match the consoles in market share, it does not mean the PC is dead in this regard, in fact I think over the next couple of years will see a revitalization of sorts.

 

[Neb]

Most people buy laptops nowadays. So it means that 70% of PC users don't play games.
Those who buy fully loaded top of the line PCs are interested gamers but it doesn't mean that they purchase every game they play.

Lol, lets assume that 70% buys laptops and dont use them for playing games. Now take into account how many persons that have laptops and the rest (30%) who have stationary and plays games. How man would 100% be, 800million persons, 400million persons, 100 million persons? <--- You get the point?

It looks to me that, sadly or not, PC gaming golden era is gone forever.[/B

Nah, we are getting great titles and even though PC gamers dont get as many games to play with as the consolers the PC games tend to be of quite good (and often much better) in quality gameplay wise and technical to by far.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Most people buy laptops nowadays. So it means that 70% of PC users don't play games.

Those who buy fully loaded top of the line PCs are interested gamers but it doesn't mean that they purchase every game they play.

It looks to me that, sadly or not, PC gaming golden era is gone forever.

Even 30% of the "total PC buying population" is probably well in excess of the market for any one console.

In fact even if you take the top 20% of that 30% I wouldn't be suprised if its still more than the X360 and definatly way more than the PS3 is selling.

PC's arn't going anywhere any time soon. in fact if anything they are making a come back. I can't remember the last time I felt so optimistic about the PC gaming landscape and if your question is about power, then take a look at the top end laptops vs PS3 for an idea of exactly how far the PC has come in just a few months...

 

[Fafalada]

I'd say 80% are dual core unless they are refurbed. Even my $600 laptop is dual core. Dell/Gateway/HP all sell sub $600 desktop with dual cores.

I'd usually relate "lowend" to existing users, not hw being purchased today. Games in many parts of the world are still developed for DX7 minimum spec because that's where the mass market on PC IS - eg. the 'same' market that Nintendo is hitting with Wii and DS.

But yea, obviously Epic isn't looking toward that demographic anytime soon.

 

[Todd33]

I'd usually relate "lowend" to existing users, not hw being purchased today. Games in many parts of the world are still developed for DX7 minimum spec because that's where the mass market on PC IS - eg. the 'same' market that Nintendo is hitting with Wii and DS.

But yea, obviously Epic isn't looking toward that demographic anytime soon.

Again, what he said:

More than 80% of PCs sold today are still single-core

 

[Rangers]

Even 30% of the "total PC buying population" is probably well in excess of the market for any one console.

In fact even if you take the top 20% of that 30% I wouldn't be suprised if its still more than the X360 and definatly way more than the PS3 is selling.

PC's arn't going anywhere any time soon. in fact if anything they are making a come back. I can't remember the last time I felt so optimistic about the PC gaming landscape and if your question is about power, then take a look at the top end laptops vs PS3 for an idea of exactly how far the PC has come in just a few months...

Yet game sales are 10-1, 20-1 on consoles. I can never decide if that's more due to the horrific money pit the PC gaming rat race is, or piracy.

PC gaming isn't dead but it has declined absolutely enormously. Just look at the topic of this thread, Epic, and where their top line support has swung.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Yet game sales are 10-1, 20-1 on consoles. I can never decide if that's more due to the horrific money pit the PC gaming rat race is, or piracy.

PC gaming isn't dead but it has declined absolutely enormously. Just look at the topic of this thread, Epic, and where their top line support has swung.

Since when were worldwide console game sales outstripping PC's 20-1, or even 10-1?

Last time I looked it was something like 5-1 across ALL consoles including handhelds. That puts the market for any one console/handheld firmly in line or even below PC sales.

EDIT: Found some figures....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/23/technology/23gaming.html?ex=1180929600&en=f3128bf7abd262c5&ei=5070

In 2006 US PC game sales were $970m compared to $4.7b in console sales plus $1.7b in handheld sales. So a little under 5x compared to consoles and under 7 times compared to consoles + handhelds.

However baring in mind that console sales would have been split across 4 major platforms with the PS2 taking the major share it seems pretty obvious that the PC would have been keeping up with GC, Xbox and Xbox 360 sales. And handhelds would be split across the GBA, DS, and PSP so it wouldn't be suprising if the PC was outstripping any of them individually.

I don't think those figures include online sales or online subscriptions either which would probably come in at a more favourable ratio for the PC than the consoles when compared to retail sales.

Baring in mind thats only covering the US though so the rest of the world might change things a little. I believe Japan is more console orientated than America while Europe is more PC orientated.

 

[-tkf-]

Yet game sales are 10-1, 20-1 on consoles. I can never decide if that's more due to the horrific money pit the PC gaming rat race is, or piracy.

PC gaming isn't dead but it has declined absolutely enormously. Just look at the topic of this thread, Epic, and where their top line support has swung.

I vote Piracy and i´m still wondering why Microsoft haven´t introduced any kind of hardware/software "solution" to this.

 

[AlexV]

I`d agree with you on that, were it not for the fact that:a)there is piracy on the consoles as well(probably not yet to the same extent, but it seems it`s gaining momentum);b)Guys like Relic seem to not care about it, because they`re confident in their product and they know they`ll have something good that brings sales even after it`s been "trial-runned" by the warezers.OTOH, wimps like JoWood still have no money(I know they`re a producer, not a game studio per se) because they release shit bug-ridden pieces of dung(some could`ve actually been good, if they were actually finished) that have uber-protection that is hard enough to circumvent in order to deter the Torrent generation. Another example of a game selling great because it`s quite good is Stalker-it has wimpy protection, that can be circumvented by something as basic as Daemon Tools, yet it was top-seller for a long time in a lot of places and it`s still selling quite well, even though it`s safe to assume it`s been pirated to death.

I think that the trouble with PC development is the very entropic nature of the environment. You have a billion possible hardware +software combinations to take into consideration. Coding for a console, you have a very clear target, you know what`s what and you can tweak it till you`re blue in the face. On PC, you have a moving target, and this tweak could break that hardware whilst the fix will break that Windows service etc.

 

[Neb]

Since when were worldwide console game sales outstripping PC's 20-1, or even 10-1?

Last time I looked it was something like 5-1 across ALL consoles including handhelds. That puts the market for any one console/handheld firmly in line or even below PC sales.

EDIT: Found some figures....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/23/technology/23gaming.html?ex=1180929600&en=f3128bf7abd262c5&ei=5070

In 2006 US PC game sales were $970m compared to $4.7b in console sales plus $1.7b in handheld sales. So a little under 5x compared to consoles and under 7 times compared to consoles + handhelds.

However baring in mind that console sales would have been split across 4 major platforms with the PS2 taking the major share it seems pretty obvious that the PC would have been keeping up with GC, Xbox and Xbox 360 sales. And handhelds would be split across the GBA, DS, and PSP so it wouldn't be suprising if the PC was outstripping any of them individually.

I don't think those figures include online sales or online subscriptions either which would probably come in at a more favourable ratio for the PC than the consoles when compared to retail sales.

Baring in mind thats only covering the US though so the rest of the world might change things a little. I believe Japan is more console orientated than America while Europe is more PC orientated.

Thanks for providing a post with some real world numbers and not 'out of the air grabbed' numbers that others present. Perhaps some need to learn to find real facts instead of 'pulling a rabbit out of their hat'!

 

[knitecrow]

Its nice to know what games sold at retail for the period mentioned to get a reference.


ttp://www.gamespot.com/news/6164433.html

Best-selling PC Games of 2006, by units sold

1. World of Warcraft--Vivendi Games
2. The Sims 2--Electronic Arts
3. The Sims 2: Open For Business Expansion Pack--Electronic Arts
4. Star Wars: Empire At War--LucasArts
5. The Sims 2: Pets Expansion Pack--Electronic Arts
6. Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion--Take-Two Interactive
7. Age of Empires III--Microsoft
8. The Sims 2: Family Fun Stuff Expansion Pack--Electronic Arts
9. Civilization IV--Take-Two Interactive
10. The Sims 2: Nightlife Expansion Pack--Electronic Arts



If looking at individual pc/console multi-platform titles, I am likely to believe the assumption that the console versions will typically outsell their PC breathern 10 or 20 to one.

 

[pc999]

He didn't say that exactly, but the meaning is there. The main point is that Epic won't support Wii development at the moment (or at the time of the interviews if you want to be picky).

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=146449



http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/08/mark-rein-says-no-unreal-engine-3-for-wii/

Thanks but I dont think you can take that meaning from it, you can say that they dont plan to suport it it UE3 tech and that once they are only investing on UE3 they will not invest on Wii, still some companys are using and experiencing with Unreal tech.

I still do wonder if they changed their mind, from the real big sucess from Wii since then, to just one game using UE (and with poor results) to peple prefering using their own engines they can be "lossing" a lot of money.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Its nice to know what games sold at retail for the period mentioned to get a reference.


ttp://www.gamespot.com/news/6164433.html

Best-selling PC Games of 2006, by units sold

1. World of Warcraft--Vivendi Games
2. The Sims 2--Electronic Arts
3. The Sims 2: Open For Business Expansion Pack--Electronic Arts
4. Star Wars: Empire At War--LucasArts
5. The Sims 2: Pets Expansion Pack--Electronic Arts
6. Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion--Take-Two Interactive
7. Age of Empires III--Microsoft
8. The Sims 2: Family Fun Stuff Expansion Pack--Electronic Arts
9. Civilization IV--Take-Two Interactive
10. The Sims 2: Nightlife Expansion Pack--Electronic Arts



If looking at individual pc/console multi-platform titles, I am likely to believe the assumption that the console versions will typically outsell their PC breathern 10 or 20 to one.

Sales of individual games even discounting the sims and WoW seem ok compared to consoles to me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#Top_PC_sellers_by_genre

I can certainly believe some games would sell much better on consoles than PC but the reverse would also be true. Also, it depends if your coparing the PC's sales to ALL console sales or one specific console. It should be compared to each specific console IMO as each version requires its own development time/budget. In fact its probably easier to port between the 360 and PC than between PS3 and 360.

 

[archangelmorph]

I vote Piracy and i'm still wondering why Microsoft haven´t introduced any kind of hardware/software "solution" to this.

I vote "stale software"..

The day the PC market started to take a dive for the worst was the day the vast majority of PC developers decided that they couldn't care less about developing any other game than FPS, RTS, D&D RPG Rip-Off etc (i.e. any genre the more "mass market/less-hardcore gamer" doesn't give much of a shit about)...

Now the PC market is fast seeing a revival thanks to people like PopCap and MMORPGs (mainly due to the stupidly enormous markets for them in China and Korea but also due to the US adoption rate)..

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Most people buy laptops nowadays. So it means that 70% of PC users don't play games.

Those who buy fully loaded top of the line PCs are interested gamers but it doesn't mean that they purchase every game they play.

It looks to me that, sadly or not, PC gaming golden era is gone forever.

On a yearly basis, roughly 200 million pc's are sold world wide. 30% would mean 60 million gamers that buy a pc per year.

Unless 95% of them are downloading everything illegally, i very much doubt that many people would play anything beyond solitare.

 

[Skrying]

Its more like 60% per year buy a laptop, about 5% of those 40% using desktops play games or have systems fast enough to do so reasonably. The vast amount of computers sold are not at all for gaming. People don't touch solitaire, people do however visit a lot of flash gaming websites (and therefore get lots of spyware). This idea that 30% or even close to that of computers sold are gaming worthy is just nuts. If that were the case then no developer would be bothering with consoles to be honest.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Its more like 60% per year buy a laptop, about 5% of those 40% using desktops play games or have systems fast enough to do so reasonably. The vast amount of computers sold are not at all for gaming. People don't touch solitaire, people do however visit a lot of flash gaming websites (and therefore get lots of spyware). This idea that 30% or even close to that of computers sold are gaming worthy is just nuts. If that were the case then no developer would be bothering with consoles to be honest.

The 360 sold a little under 9 million units in 2006. Thats roughly 4% of the total yearly PC sales if they are indeed 200m (I couldn't find any figures).

So for the PC to be considered a gaming platform of equal stature to the 360 the question is, are 4 out of every 100 PC's bought today used for regular (retail) gaming. Another interesteing question would be how the top 4% compare performance wise to the 360. Obviously in that measure 2007 will look a lot better than 2006.

 

[Jesus2006]

The 360 sold a little under 9 million units in 2006. Thats roughly 4% of the total yearly PC sales if they are indeed 200m (I couldn't find any figures).

Forgive me if im wrong, but didn't MS just recently "sell" it's 10th million unit (in March), where sell means actually shipped to stores, not sold?