Intel Broadwell for desktops

Discussion in 'PC Industry' started by fellix, Nov 22, 2013.

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  1. Blazkowicz

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    Consumers are getting i5/i7 all the time, because they don't quite know what they want. With the iGPU and low requirements, it's very easy for an OEM to throw together an i7, 8GB ram and 1TB or bigger HDD in a tower. (Low requirements being that a 300W PSU and cheapest motherboard will do). And that's not even a bad PC : that kind of money used to buy a MediaGX PC, a Celeron P4 with sdram and SiS chipset graphics and so on, if that.

    An OEM may often include a lower end graphics card with 2GB or so ddr3 memory, but they would presumably be not if using an i5 or i7 C.
     
  2. Scott_Arm

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    At this point, I don't think I'd ever spend money on a dual-core CPU. It's quad-core or bust. Not sure if I'd go i3 either, but I'm not fully aware of the differences between i3 and i5.
     
  3. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    i3 is dual core and i5 is quad core - generally speaking. There are a few minor exceptions. i3 is also hyperthreaded while i5 is not, again, generally speaking.
     
  4. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    I'd seen benchmarks where Iris Pro was beating AMD but always (to my knowledge) in laptops or other power constrained systems and I think I'd just assumed that when both were released of those restrictions in a desktop, AMD would perform a lot better. Obviously I was wrong!

    I'm also nicely impressed by the CPU performance given the low clock speed. I can't wait to see what you do with Skylake and 72 EU's. I'm guessing you'll be playing in or near XBO territory by then.
     
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  5. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    That's the one thing I don't like about these new CPU's. Too much GPU. Don't get me wrong, the GPU performance is amazing if that's what you want but more serious gamers are going to be getting a DGPU. But look at that die shot, it seems about 2/3rd of what I'm paying for in the CPU will actually never be used by me. I know Intel cater for this with the "E" range but it's late and overpriced by comparison and I'm not sure I understand why. Seems to me like an 8 core CPU without GPU would still be smaller (and thus cheaper) than a 4 core CPU with GPU. I'd rather Intel gave us that choice from day 1 and at the same cost as the CPU+GPU options.
     
  6. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    In notebook land you don't get quad cores until you get into the high-TDP side of the i7 range. You get hyperthreading much more often though.

    Also a nod to those sneaky budget Baytrail/Cherrytrail chips... They can be quads however!
     
    #166 swaaye, Jun 3, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2015
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  7. Andrew Lauritzen

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    It's a lot more complicated than that simple accounting, although that sort of logic is common from enthusiasts. Suffice it to say - compare this die to Haswell-E to Xeon D and you'll get an impression of why it's not just a "hey, it feels like I can fit N more cores in that space, I'll get out my glue stick!" :)

    Regarding cost, the 6-core 5820k is about the same price as some of these CPUs I believe... it's certainly a good option if you don't need the iGPU and prefer more cores/cache/PCI-E lanes instead. Different options for different people.

    I really do feel like between the regular quad cores, these and the -E series parts consumers have lots of choices between design points. It's not as if you could magically fit a 140W HSW-E into a 65W chip with the same performance or energy characteristics.

    Ultimately for games and consumer workloads frequency is still far more important than number of cores. Thus it's a bad trade-off to add more cores and lower the frequency.
     
  8. Blazkowicz

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    Very low power quad with the latest integrated graphics can be great for some uses, i.e. Atom, AMD, even Tegra X1.
    I would take it for a bad reason : some programs waste a lot of CPU. There's a linux window manager that uses OpenGL and is very good, but wastes ungodly CPU power when moving or sizing windows. One web browser that I use for only one flash game. HTML5 streaming : that's even heavier than flash, which was heavier than java (remember wmv streaming? that didn't waste CPU lol). If/when HTML5 wins over Flash for good or Flash becomes impractical (maybe mid-2017) it will warrant its own separate Firefox instance, to watch/listen to stuff.
    Oh, I forgot that a javascript implementation of flash is in the works (by Mozilla) so there's never an end to the layering of CPU wasting technologies :D

    tl;dr with a 15W quad core CPU+GPU you can have a stupid process using 80% of one core and not worry about noise or power bill ; three whole cores are left to run mildly more useful code.

    With a desktop i3 you can't go much wrong, or let's call it a 2C/4T (dual core, four threads).
    It's ungodly fast : 3.6GHz Haswell, so it's much like a 4770 unless you're going to use all the threads.
    On mobile if Intel makes 28W 2C/4T Broadwell and Skylake with a high-ish clock speed that'd be some of the best ones.
     
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  9. Infinisearch

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    Thanks, I guess I'll wait a couple of months and check the intel site for a doc with the errata in desktop Broadwell.
     
  10. DavidC

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    At least on the Haswell parts, the 28W chips have higher C state(close to idle) power use than 15W ones. So, that's not true.
     
  11. Grall

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    Since broadwell alledgedly fits all current socket 1150 motherboards (provided the appropriate firmware has been flashed), I've been thinking I should still upgrade my current rig once given the chance, rather than waiting even longer and spending a huge chunk of money on an entirely new PC, when this one could serve me well for a while longer. Are there any signs broadwell-C chips are heading out into the retail channel yet? I've not seen anything myself so far...

    Cheers! :D
     
  12. fellix

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    Broadwell-C is really a very nice upgrade option for the existing 1150 boards and that doesn't happen often lately, to be honest with the barrage of sockets by Intel. The situation is very similar to my decision, to prolong the life of my old LGA1366 workstation, by throwing in a dirt cheap 6-core Xeon and meanwhile spend the rest of the budget on a new high-end IPS monitor that I actually badly needed.
     
  13. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
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    While that's true, it's hard to shake the feeling of paying for a lot of extra transistors we don't need. That's just going to get worse as the igpu consumes more of the die.

    There probably isn't a lot of incentive for Intel to sell "pure" quad cores for the consumer market though.
     
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  14. Infinisearch

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    Don't you need a newer chipset for that? I have a Z87 chipset so IIRC I can't upgrade to broadwell.
     
  15. 3dilettante

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    It's not just the transistors the customer pays for. The unique masks, design, engineering, marketing, and production cost are also paid for. The integrated client chips have that cost spread out over a broader set of markets. Some, like the business and mobile markets, appreciate the GPU very much.

    The possibility exists that a desktop consumer could wind up paying more just for the transistors they need, rather than accepting that the price of having the whole business market and mobile subsidize their purchase is some mm2 of silicon they don't interact with.
     
  16. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    From where did you source that cheap 6-core xeon? My older PC is a socket 1366, and it could be fun to tinker with it again, provided it doesn't cost too much money. :) It could help me buff my folding@home standing if nothing else! ;)

    The wary would ordinarily do well to assume that, considering past Intel history! However, according to Anandtech:
    ...So it looks like we're in luck! :D
     
  17. Andrew Lauritzen

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    Yeah, while I get the sentiment and all, my response to the whole "it feels bad to waste all these transistors" is kind of leaning towards "you let us worry about that" :) Get whatever processor is most appropriate for you (between devil's canyon, Haswell-E and these new Broadwell chips I'd argue you have a good range of choices at the major design points) if you feel the price is justified for what you get out of the parts of it that you use. Let economics work out the rest :)
     
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  18. Kaarlisk

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    Take it with a grain of salt. It may be that there are certain authors on Anandtech that are prone to making assumptions and not labeling them as such.
    I could not yet find any Z87 motherboards that support Broadwell. I may, of course, be mistaken.
     
  19. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    That's quite an accusation. ;) The review has been up for a couple days now and the quote in question still stands. If it was inaccurate you'd think someone would have pointed it out to them by now so they could fix it. ;) Also, AT should be big enough of an operation to have a fact-checking editor... *shrug*
     
  20. fellix

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    Just search for it in eBay. I've got mine from the local classifieds.

    The price will vary in a wide range. The lowest I've stumbled once was $60, no warranty, just a 3-day money back. Mine was taken down from a small-scale corporate mail server.
     
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