Integrated graphics passes 50% mark.

[790]

I've got a working quantum computer prototype in my backyard. The only problem is, it crashes at any temperature above absolute zero...

Unfortunately, you will experience quantum phase decoherence in such a system even at 0K, due to entanglement, see Caldeira-Leggett and Mohtany et al.

On topic, the PC market is a tricky one. It's no surprise that the best selling PC games run on the absolute lowest denominator systems (RTS games only recently made the switch to 3D). The developers aren't to blame, we need market saturation first, and that doesn't happen until the decent OEM cards and IGPs become cheap enough to include "as standard".

I don't think IGP has changed the overall situation much -- consumers still start with crap cards as always, and the gamers eventually upgrade when they realise they can't play the latest cool games, the market will always lag the technology by two years at least, and consoles will always provide a stable compromise.

That is all until the day that graphics acceleration plateaus. That'll actually be two stages. The first is the art-content reaching a plateau, in so far as not becoming obsolete every generation, rather, the scalability will be at the shader level (3-4 years IMHO). The significance of this is games will be more scalable. The final step will be when we reach something akin to the state of the CG industry, where the tools and rendering technology settles down. Then everyone will be able to play every game on their PC, and the console as a specialized system will die. My best guess for that is 20 years

 

[PC-Engine]

Unfortunately, you will experience quantum phase decoherence in such a system even at 0K, due to entanglement, see Caldeira-Leggett and Mohtany et al.

Shhhhh...please do me a favor and don't tell everyone ok?! 8)

 

[Nagorak]

Well don't start prophesizing the end of the graphics card world. It's all about supply and demand. The truth is, as long as there is a demand for high end gaming cards, a market will exist for them. Maybe ATi and Nvidia won't make as much money overall, but they won't go away (although graphics card advancement may slow down significantly due to decreased R&D). I actually have my doubts that Intel will ever make significant inroads into the serious gaming sector. Yeah, low end integrated crap will be there, but then again it has been for some time now.

 

[Dio]

I have a simple analogy with tech companies in an 'obscure' but similarly important field - Dolby Labs / SDDS...

In that industry, the specific 'gains' of evolving standards in sound reproduction are small, but both companies are still doing the research and producing both improved quality AND profits.

I imagine a similar thing is the long term destination of the 3D industry. Of course, my crystal ball is no less cloudy than anyone else's.

 

[flf]

Limited to card games!! Don't give a damn about playing!!?? HUH? grrrrrr! Oh you said over 30, I guess being over 40 and having a mid life crisis brings me back into the gaming arena Any babes out there who want to swing?

When I had a C64, my friends had Atari 2600s. When I had an Apple //gs, my friends had an NES. When I had a 386SX/16, my friends had 286s (and most people had a SNES) When I had a Pentium, everyone was buying a Playstation.

Computer gamers are still a niche group, but a very sizable niche... console gamers are the unwashed masses.

The one thing to keep in mind, is that while most individuals spent a few thousand on consoles in the last decade, I spent over forty thousand on computer hardware in that decade. Computer gaming is a fairly expensive hobby.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Top selling PC games for December...

1) The Sims: Unleashed Expansion Pack - Electronic Arts
2) The Sims Deluxe - Electronic Arts
3) Harry Potter & The Chamber Of Secrets - Electronic Arts
4) Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 - Infogrames Entertainment
5) MS Zoo Tycoon - Microsoft
6) The Sims: Vacation Expansion Pack - Electronic Arts
7) MS Zoo Tycoon: Marine Mania Expansion Pack - Microsoft
8.) MS Age Of Mythology - Microsoft
9) Backyard Hockey - Infogrames Entertainment
10) Medal Of Honor: Allied Assault - Electronic Arts




Ummm I think that sums it up

 

[Tahir2]

Top selling PC games for December...

1) The Sims: Unleashed Expansion Pack - Electronic Arts
2) The Sims Deluxe - Electronic Arts
3) Harry Potter & The Chamber Of Secrets - Electronic Arts
4) Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 - Infogrames Entertainment
5) MS Zoo Tycoon - Microsoft
6) The Sims: Vacation Expansion Pack - Electronic Arts
7) MS Zoo Tycoon: Marine Mania Expansion Pack - Microsoft
8.) MS Age Of Mythology - Microsoft
9) Backyard Hockey - Infogrames Entertainment
10) Medal Of Honor: Allied Assault - Electronic Arts

What the Hell is Medal of Honour: Allied Assault doing there???

I think I should by shares in EA. 8)

 

[Nagorak]

Top selling PC games for December...

1) The Sims: Unleashed Expansion Pack - Electronic Arts
2) The Sims Deluxe - Electronic Arts
3) Harry Potter & The Chamber Of Secrets - Electronic Arts
4) Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 - Infogrames Entertainment
5) MS Zoo Tycoon - Microsoft
6) The Sims: Vacation Expansion Pack - Electronic Arts
7) MS Zoo Tycoon: Marine Mania Expansion Pack - Microsoft
8.) MS Age Of Mythology - Microsoft
9) Backyard Hockey - Infogrames Entertainment
10) Medal Of Honor: Allied Assault - Electronic Arts




Ummm I think that sums it up

Bleh...absolutely pathetic.

 

[Entropy]

OK, I'll do some more crystalballing. I have the feeling this topic is avoided, since noone on these forums particularly like the implications of the figures and trends.

All non-high end 3D graphics is slowly but surely moving to integrated devices. Intel owns this market in its own space.

Game sales on PCs is smaller than on consoles, and the volume sellers are uniformly non-3D graphics titles.

Extrapolating the first trend should be safe. Everything speaks in favour of integrated graphics. Consoles vs. PCs and the types of games that are played isn't as clear cut however.

Console specifications are fixed for a longer time. This makes them an easier-to-exploit-optimally target, but also ensures that they will fall further and further behind PC evolution as time passes. The capabilities of the current generation of consoles is pretty good compared to PCs when the low target resolution is taken into consideration. But fast forward 3 years, and the picture has changed considerably. CPUs, memory and gfx capabilities of PCs will, with the migration to 0.065um lithography, have progressed well beyond todays highest end. The hardware resources available on PCs will allow the creation of content that will be impossible on current consoles.

So, it's not unreasonable to assume that we could see a swing back towards PCs towards, but hardly reaching, the situation we saw before the launch of the PS2. There are two question marks though.
Will developers target PCs exclusively for their games? If the content is hamstrung in order to enable the title to be released on consoles as well, the race is run. PC gaming will follow console development for the forseeable future. Integrated graphics will eventually take over essentially the entire PC market.
Will developers for PCs target "the mainstream"? If they do, they will fail to benefit much from the unique benefits that PCs can offer, and the ability of 3D-graphics to push forward (and its abilities to drive PC sales) will falter.

It is obvious, to me, that there are market forces at work that could squeeze 3D-gfx on PCs into a small niche that will fail to draw consumer dollars and thus will stagnate.

I'm a bit curious as to what the companies that would have the most to loose on such a development are doing to counter it.

Entropy

 

[Nagorak]

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me as consoles move closer to PC, that we might see some people just end up swinging back toward PCs. If newer consoles end up becoming much more complex and PC like, they might end up doing themselves in.

Already the consoles are moving into "dangerous territory" as far as I'm concerned. With add on stuff like hard drives, online service, etc, you can no longer just buy a console and know everything will run on it out of the box. Pretty soon they won't be any less complex than PCs, but they'll still be more limited and I think it may well blow up in their faces. We'll see though.

 

[PC-Engine]

The only reason why hardrives are being used in consoles is the fact that some online games benefit from it. It's not being used for storing Windows programs. Consoles have always had addon peripherals even back in the NES days, the difference is you don't need to fiddle with drivers like on PCs In other words, it's true plug n play not plug n pray

 

[KimB]

The only reason why hardrives are being used in consoles is the fact that some online games benefit from it. It's not being used for storing Windows programs. Consoles have always had addon peripherals even back in the NES days, the difference is you don't need to fiddle with drivers like on PCs In other words, it's true plug n play not plug n pray

The X-Box hard drive is used for caching data from the game disc, as well as storing save game data. Its primary use has nothing to do with online games.

 

[PC-Engine]

The only reason why hardrives are being used in consoles is the fact that some online games benefit from it. It's not being used for storing Windows programs. Consoles have always had addon peripherals even back in the NES days, the difference is you don't need to fiddle with drivers like on PCs In other words, it's true plug n play not plug n pray

The X-Box hard drive is used for caching data from the game disc, as well as storing save game data. Its primary use has nothing to do with online games.

Of course it is, but that's not a fundamental requirement of a console

The GCN doesn't even have a HD and it loads games much faster than the Xbox. The HD in Xbox doesn't even need to exist in the first place. It's pretty much a gimmick at this point allowing ripping of music etc.

The point is that having a HD doesn't require a console to be more complex like a PC. It's just an addon like any other attachment for a console. Back in the day a CDROM drive was a *addon* to the console until it was later integrated into one unit. Adding a modem/HD/kb doesn't make a console a PC. If it's still plug n play like all consoles then it's nothing like a PC. If a game requires a HD on a console then one can say it's encroaching on the PC model. AFAIK only PC games require a hardrive

 

[KimB]

The GCN doesn't even have a HD and it loads games much faster than the Xbox. The HD in Xbox doesn't even need to exist in the first place. It's pretty much a gimmick at this point allowing ripping of music etc.

There are many more issues at work here. For example, how much loading is actually done? I'm willing to bet that the X-Box takes longer because it's loading much more data. This particularly makes sense when you consider that X-Box discs have a larger capacity (though much of it isn't used currently).

And the hard drive can only help load times if you're loading a level the second time, after loading it once not long before. It obviously can't help the first time a level is loaded (well, with normal caching...perhaps some future game will load data during play so that everything needed for the next level will already be on the hard drive ready to load).