Inquirer Gossip:- NV35 supports PS 3

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11300

"Some of Nvidia guys that know how things work have told our friends that NV35, Geforce FX 5900 Ultra already has support for pixel shader 3.0 but there is no any driver publicly available that will support it. µ The same source implied that when Nvidia tested pixel shader 3.0 internally, there was a hardware problem."

Heh and some of my freinds were told by a freind of a travelling salesman that the Rx0 supports PS 3 ++ ;)

I suppose next we'll hear that PS 2 is holding Nvidia back and if they could implement PS3 right now the NV35 would be twice as fast as the ATI cards!
 
THe_KELRaTH said:
I suppose next we'll hear that PS 2 is holding Nvidia back and if they could implement PS3 right now the NV35 would be twice as fast as the ATI cards!

That's correct, because if they managed that, they'd have 100x times better drivers than they do right now, and that'd mean they'd have so good drivers theyd win against ATI.
And sure, they like, got mokeys working on those miracle drivers as we speak...

More seriously though...
One of the original design goals of the NV30 was to share the texture lookup units between VS and PS. And they screwed, only giving it to PS in silicon ( if they gave it to VS, they had VS3.0. and PS0.0. compliancy ;) )
So it'd also make sense that if they shooted for VS3.0. compliancy, they'd shoot for PS3.0. compliancy - and what's the main factor for that? Branching!

So maybe, just like for the texture lookup units, they're sharing the branhing systems. And heck, if there's a hardware problem again... Guess who not only screwed VS3.0. compliancy, but also PS3.0. compliancy? :LOL:

Damn, those guys rule ;) Not sure that rumor holds any truth though, but it is *possible* they tried it. Unlikely, but possible.


Uttar
 
Uttar,

How could you share branching hardware between ps and vs? That would basically have to mean you'd be running both types of code through the same execution units wouldn't it? It's not like two people sitting there sewing and sharing one pair of scissors, the branch hardware sits there in a fixed place on the die connected to wherever it's connected and it's going to stay there. Sharing it doesn't seem easily done to me.

Thus sharing branch hardware would mean ps programs bottleneck vs programs and the other way around, and that would be kinda bad, don't you think? You couldn't run ps and vs in parallel...


*G*
 
Question?

Doesn't the 5200 "support" PS 2.0, it's just it runs it like a slideshow?

Who's to say the nV3x doesn't "support" PS 3.0, it just won't run it worth beans! :LOL:
 
You know what I think is very sad is that most french websites are posting Inquirer news as if it could be real....
 
PatrickL said:
You know what I think is very sad is that most french websites are posting Inquirer news as if it could be real....

Well, a few months ago, I'd have said that was insane.
Fudo's getting good sources though IMO. It took him a while, but he's very seriously getting there!

Also, Grall:
Well, according to your logic, how much easier is sharing Texture Lookup units? Heck, it also potentially prevents you from running PS and VS in parallel, and it's also placed on a fixed place on the die, ...

In the NV3x, the texture lookup units are decoupled from this hardwired pipeline ( Yep, I'm using the exact same words David Kirk once used to say that, before we understood what he really meant by saying 'this' and not 'these' ) - why couldn't it be the same thing for the branching units?

Actually, there's some required cache - but for experimentation purposes, they might do whatever they want, use memory and run it at slight show speeds, put it in the texture cache, or whatever. You get the point.

Unless I missed one of your points? I must admit I fear I might have...


Uttar
 
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros. said:
The Inquirer seems to be pretty accurate on Nvidia and ATI rumours. The obviously have their sources, probably some OEM, or person breaking NDA to leak stories to them.

Those sources are called company fanatics that post rumors in forums, and Inquirer takes the information and make it sound like they got it from a "secret source". I laugh when I read stuff like this. The Inquirer pulls more information out of their arse than from real sources. :rolleyes:
 
There´s a small difference between an architecture to have good presuppositions to make it to PS/VS3.0 compliance and having said compliance just being disabled for the time being.

AFAIK the NV3x has headroom to scale up to 1024 instructions; trouble is that >512 instructions doesn´t make it PS/VS3.0 immediately.
 
Yes, I can confirm %100 that NV3x cards can run PS/VS 3.0 but they have to use a speacial supersecret "refrast" mode ;) :LOL: :rolleyes:

However, in all seriousness, I would expect nVidia to be testing PS/VS 3.0 on their currently available chips. I do not, however, expect them to manage to get their chips to actually be what we would consider to be any degree of compatibility.
 
Uttar said:
Well, according to your logic, how much easier is sharing Texture Lookup units?

Well, considering that today I have pretty much alienated the entire known universe (though inadvertedly, I say to my own defense), so I'm not sure anymore I even HAVE a sense of logic, but to answer your question - and while having no real experience with these matters - I have to say to me it would seem slightly less difficult.

Texture lookups IS more like a loose pair of scissors I'd think. Having decoupled texture lookup hardware could work just fine as long as neither ps nor vs need to do lookups at the same time. With sufficient use of shaders and possibly some fifos and thingamajiggies to buffer data in case of an odd collision if it doesn't happen too often, it could be that it's fairly unlikely that both ps and vs need to use lookups in exactly the same cycle and hence parallel execution should be possible...I suppose.

After all, it seems Nvidia intended to implement things this way, they must have had at least a fairly good reason for it or they wouldn't have done it...

That said, a branching unit seems much more integral to the function of the processing core itself to me. A texture lookup thingy delivers a particular set of texels in return from a set of coordinates, right? It's like a delivery boy if I understand things correctly, it could actually function independently as long as it's not needed to deliver from two locations at the same time! ;)

However, branch hardware actually executes instructions, and hence has to be part of the execution stream, located AT or at least near the ALU or whatever that drives the PS/VS processors so that instructions may move from previous execution stages and to the next stages in the pipeline... How do you decouple one part of the pipe and get it to run instructions from two entirely different execution streams, and what would be the real point of it?

Guess it would save some trannies if you wanted to make a good branch predictor, but with the risk of one stream stalling the other and creating unpredictable pipeline bubbles, and considering even the best of predictors guessing wrong at times thus making the bubbles in the other pipe all for nothing, would it really be worth the loss of performance?

I admit, I'm guessing as much as I'm speculating here. Just trying my best to make sense, probably not succeeding very well.

Actually, there's some required cache - but for experimentation purposes, they might do whatever they want, use memory and run it at slight show speeds, put it in the texture cache, or whatever. You get the point.

Uh... No. Not really. :) But then again, judging from what I've been told over the last 24 hours or so, I'm one dumb son of a bitch so that wouldn't be strange.


*G*
 
Since NV3x is unable to run at usable speeds any shader with more than 2-4 registers, does it really matter if they can support ps3.0?

I would rather like to see a driver with a better scheduler, which hopefully makes the ps2.0 and the arb_fragment_program shaders more usable, instead of premature support for ps3.0.

This may sound like cynicism, but it is the sad truth and nVdia knows that better than me.

And the fact that even the one year old r300 can support (part of) the OpenGL Shading Language, a superset of the ps3.0 functionality, doesn’t sound good for nVidia either.

The SRT Rendering Toolkit
 
Pavlos said:
Since NV3x is unable to run at usable speeds any shader with more than 2-4 registers, does it really matter if they can support ps3.0?

It depends on what the average number of "live" temporary registers are in a typical shader.
 
Is it more likely that Nvidia are testing PS3 using an emulator for the Nv35 as they did with CineFX before the NV30 was .. erm.. available but clever wording to a journalist gave a slightly false impression.
We all know how Nvidias PR works and right now I would imagine they're desperate to suggest some form of supremacy for their current top card as things are taking a bit of a nose dive for them now that DX9 games are starting to appear.

On another note; isn't Centroid sampling meant to be part of DX9.1/PS3 featureset.
 
On another note; isn't Centroid sampling meant to be part of DX9.1/PS3 featureset.

There's no such thing as dx9.1 and it's not sure it ever will be.

PS/VS3.0 are part of dx9.0. And yes Centroid is part of PS3.0.
 
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