Infinium sues [H]

[AzBat]

Whether or not [H]ard|OCP have caused $20 million worth of damage to Infinium Labs is not the important issue as I see it.

Infinium Labs is about to dig themselves a deep hole in the ground, which they may never be able to recover from. That $20 million is nothing compared to the damage this lawsuit is causing Infinium Labs in the enthusiast mindset.

Who in the entire market would buy anything coming from this company? I would definitely not touch them with a 10-foot infested pole. They just destroyed their own target group, great marketing on their part? I think not.

I see it as a lose-lose situation for Infinium Labs. Am I entirely wrong in thinking this ?

Since Infinium Labs has come into being it's been laughed at and ridiculed by the market your talking about. I expect that if they do win the lawsuit against Kyle, then they will at least win some approval from the financial community and that goes more to credibility than a bunch of high tech geeks like us. Especially considering that we're not their market audience in the first place. With that said I don't see it being a lose-lose proposition. If they loose the lawsuit, then yes, they're done for, but if they win then I think they'll pull through it and go on with their launch. Whether or not the launch or the product is successful is a totally different story, but at least they deserve a chance to release their product.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

We've heard that case a lot, however could it not also be the case, if, indeed as they alledge, the the hole has already been dug for them? If they really did have investors lined up that have now gone that must have now put the development of the console well behind - their aim, so they state, was to have something more powerful than the current consoles and the loss of investors puts their development closer and closer to the next generation from the big three such that they will either be behind the times or have to scrap the original design and research another. It may be the case that Infinium feel they have nothing more to loose right now.

Agreed. Getting past the first rounds of financial backing is the most crucial.

Tommy McClain

 

[digitalwanderer]

But in order to win against Kyle Infinium is going to have to prove that all their assertations of errors in [H]'s article were wrong and malicious in nature....and I just don't think they'll be able to.

Kyle got most of the guys work history directly from the guys own resume, information that he is now claiming is damaging to his reputation? (I find it amusing that you can get damaging info from someone's resume like that. )

Also, from what I recall Kyle often agreed to correct the article in question if Infinium would just point out exactly what was wrong with it...which from those court documents it makes it sound like they told Kyle that they had an actual factory producing beta units and he laughed them off and said, "I prefer the story the way it is' or some such....and I just can NOT see Kyle being that stupid!

I think this guy is attacking Kyle because he has absolutely no other options to run with his pseudo-company right now and he's just hoping to scare Kyle into settling, and I don't think Kyle is exactly the kind of guy who will "settle".

Either way, it should prove entertaining. 8)

 

[Pressure]

Whether or not [H]ard|OCP have caused $20 million worth of damage to Infinium Labs is not the important issue as I see it.

Infinium Labs is about to dig themselves a deep hole in the ground, which they may never be able to recover from. That $20 million is nothing compared to the damage this lawsuit is causing Infinium Labs in the enthusiast mindset.

Who in the entire market would buy anything coming from this company? I would definitely not touch them with a 10-foot infested pole. They just destroyed their own target group, great marketing on their part? I think not.

I see it as a lose-lose situation for Infinium Labs. Am I entirely wrong in thinking this ?

Since Infinium Labs has come into being it's been laughed at and ridiculed by the market your talking about. I expect that if they do win the lawsuit against Kyle, then they will at least win some approval from the financial community and that goes more to credibility than a bunch of high tech geeks like us. Especially considering that we're not their market audience in the first place. With that said I don't see it being a lose-lose proposition. If they loose the lawsuit, then yes, they're done for, but if they win then I think they'll pull through it and go on with their launch. Whether or not the launch or the product is successful is a totally different story, but at least they deserve a chance to release their product.

Tommy McClain

Well, we may be in two opposite extremes regarding this but the people who will (or already have) read anything about this lawsuit will have a predetermined position towards Infinium Labs. I still tend to believe that the target group of people who would actually buy a console from Infinium Labs falls heavily into the enthusiasts market. Why would [H]ard|OCP even care to write an article about them if it was not ? Why does it get circulated at every IT news site ? Of course, talking about an majority or minority is useless as there is no product heh.

Another thing to have in mind would be the competition. They are facing pretty fierce competition out there and reviewers will certainly drop a note or two about their past in any review. I think the enthusiast market is bigger than we all think it is.

 

[Sxotty]

I agree with DW in more than one way.

Here is my opinion first there is no more room in the console area right now. Any intelligent person should see that from what happened to sega, and their console wasn't bad and was out before the rest.

Second I think infinium is just a way to investor fraud now here is the nifty part.

If they have no chance of making any money at all in the console area which is the case IMO then they can instead throw their chances away for a chance at winning a lawsuit and getting some money back. Now is kyle really rich enough he can shell out 20 million? Well I don't have a clue but I had assumed he wasn't tho someone said he had plenty of money so they can take it.

 

[digitalwanderer]

My big question with this all:

Wouldn't Infinium need to demonstrate that they had actually made this technology work before they even have a whisper of a prayer of winning this case? And I'm not just talking about a few mocked together beta units, they would need at least a mock-up of a server infrastructure that was going to be delivering games and content too.

And again, I just don't think Infinium ever got that serious about making this console so they can't prove it nor win the case....IMHO.

 

[AzBat]

I agree with DW in more than one way.

Here is my opinion first there is no more room in the console area right now. Any intelligent person should see that from what happened to sega, and their console wasn't bad and was out before the rest.

Second I think infinium is just a way to investor fraud now here is the nifty part.

If they have no chance of making any money at all in the console area which is the case IMO then they can instead throw their chances away for a chance at winning a lawsuit and getting some money back. Now is kyle really rich enough he can shell out 20 million? Well I don't have a clue but I had assumed he wasn't tho someone said he had plenty of money so they can take it.

Just remember that whether or not the market could support another player in the console market is not the issue. It doesn't matter if the market can support another player. The issue is whether or not Kyle and company cause harm to Infinium Labs reputation by publishing the article and whether or not that led to loosing venture capital from potential investors.

BTW, Infinium Labs is not seeking $20,000,000 is damages. They just stated that is how much they already lost from potential investors. They don't specifically state how much monetary damages they are seeking.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

My big question with this all:

Wouldn't Infinium need to demonstrate that they had actually made this technology work before they even have a whisper of a prayer of winning this case? And I'm not just talking about a few mocked together beta units, they would need at least a mock-up of a server infrastructure that was going to be delivering games and content too.

No. The $20,000,000 in investment was probably their first round of financing and would have gone to that kind of stuff. Since they didn't get it they probably didn't have enough capital to get past the beta units. Which is probably the whole reason why Infinium Labs is going to all the trouble of this lawsuit in the first place.

Tommy McClain

 

[digitalwanderer]

My big question with this all:

Wouldn't Infinium need to demonstrate that they had actually made this technology work before they even have a whisper of a prayer of winning this case? And I'm not just talking about a few mocked together beta units, they would need at least a mock-up of a server infrastructure that was going to be delivering games and content too.

No. The $20,000,000 in investment was probably their first round of financing and would have gone to that kind of stuff. Since they didn't get it they probably didn't have enough capital to get past the beta units. Which is probably the whole reason why Infinium Labs is going to all the trouble of this lawsuit in the first place.

Tommy McClain

Ah, now there in lies the rub Tommy...because I don't agree with you on this point and whichever way the court views this point will probably very well decide this case.

I'm just curious as to see how far the work on the actual system had progressed, wouldn't they at least need the plans on paper before getting people to commit that kind of money or are there still investors who are trying to relive the dot-com craze?

I am NOT saying you're wrong, because you raise some good points...but it's going to end up being the court that will finally decide on these points.

I gotta check around and see what the legal politics in that County are like, I just hope me legal connections have something!

 

[AzBat]

My big question with this all:

Wouldn't Infinium need to demonstrate that they had actually made this technology work before they even have a whisper of a prayer of winning this case? And I'm not just talking about a few mocked together beta units, they would need at least a mock-up of a server infrastructure that was going to be delivering games and content too.

No. The $20,000,000 in investment was probably their first round of financing and would have gone to that kind of stuff. Since they didn't get it they probably didn't have enough capital to get past the beta units. Which is probably the whole reason why Infinium Labs is going to all the trouble of this lawsuit in the first place.

Tommy McClain

Ah, now there in lies the rub Tommy...because I don't agree with you on this point and whichever way the court views this point will probably very well decide this case.

I'm just curious as to see how far the work on the actual system had progressed, wouldn't they at least need the plans on paper before getting people to commit that kind of money or are there still investors who are trying to relive the dot-com craze?

I am NOT saying you're wrong, because you raise some good points...but it's going to end up being the court that will finally decide on these points.

I gotta check around and see what the legal politics in that County are like, I just hope me legal connections have something!

You might have more of a case if Infinium Labs was a public company, but since its private it's a different ball game. They'll probably be only required to show to the court whatever they showed the investors that withdrew their financial support. If it was good enough to get multi-million dollar financial support before they read Kyle's article, then it should be sufficient for the courts. The problem here is that Kyle's article caused un-substantiated doubts over the company and CEO. If Infinium proves the doubts in Kyle's article were false , then that means Kyle's article was "malicious and defamatory". Had they corrected them early on, then more than likely the investors would have invested their money and we wouldn't be here today.

Tommy McClain

 

[Fodder]

If Infinium proves the doubts in Kyle's article were false ...

If. The article seemed fairly solid.

 

[digitalwanderer]

If Infinium proves the doubts in Kyle's article were false ...

If. The article seemed fairly solid.

I agree, I'm just hoping that the lawyers and judges and such see it the same way.

Time will tell, and you gotta admit that at least it's going to be hella entertaining to armchair quarterback! 8)

 

[CMAN]

Infinium will need to prove Kyle is false in his allegations. If he causeed harm to the company, but with accurate and true information, then Infinium cannot win anything. I think Infinium will win one part though. Kyle did use the copyrighted images of their logo and such without permission. But I do not think that will result in any large type of settlement. Anyone know anything about copyright settlements?

 

[aaronspink]

You might have more of a case if Infinium Labs was a public company, but since its private it's a different ball game. They'll probably be only required to show to the court whatever they showed the investors that withdrew their financial support. If it was good enough to get multi-million dollar financial support before they read Kyle's article, then it should be sufficient for the courts.

Whether or not it was good enough to get the financing before the article is immaterial to the issue at hand. The defense that they really weren't going to get the funding or that the article didn't have an impact on the funding at going to be minor issues.

The problem here is that Kyle's article caused un-substantiated doubts over the company and CEO.

And there is nothing legally wrong with this.

If Infinium proves the doubts in Kyle's article were false , then that means Kyle's article was "malicious and defamatory".

Not, it simply means that it was false. There is no legal recourse for an article that is merely false for a public entity, which by any definition Infinium Labs and its CEO are.

The issue of whether the article is malicious is very very hard to prove in a court of law. Infinium and its CEO will have to prove that Kyle set out in the article with the expressed purpose to spread lies and falsehoods with the intent to harm them.

Had they corrected them early on, then more than likely the investors would have invested their money and we wouldn't be here today.

What Kyle could verify as incorrect was corrected. All the other information comes either from public sources or interviews.

Aaron Spink
speaking for myself inc.

 

[bloodbob]

I can't see the company really winning any damages I could see the CEO maybe getting some sort of damages but hopefully that won't happen. Kyle asked for what information was incorrect they refused to respond so I'm sure this will help minimize any damages that are rewarded. BUT IANAL!!!

 

[epicstruggle]

I can't see the company really winning any damages I could see the CEO maybe getting some sort of damages but hopefully that won't happen. Kyle asked for what information was incorrect they refused to respond so I'm sure this will help minimize any damages that are rewarded. BUT IANAL!!!

Its like apologizing after you (H) punched me (Infinium) in the nose.

later,
epic

 

[bloodbob]

Lets take it to the extremes who do you think is gonna get off a with a lesser sentence ( lets not talk about reality here we all know the legal system is nuts ) the guy who runs over someone crossing the road and speeds off or the guy who runs over someone crossing the road and attempts to help the victim.

 

[Hanners]

Who in the entire market would buy anything coming from this company? I would definitely not touch them with a 10-foot infested pole. They just destroyed their own target group, great marketing on their part? I think not.

Perhaps more importantly, we should ask what online publications will want to review or analyse the Phantom if it ever comes into being? Between the bad blood caused by this dispute and the danger of being sued if you say anything negative, nobody will want to review units and the whole thing will die a death anyway.

I think Infinium will win one part though. Kyle did use the copyrighted images of their logo and such without permission. But I do not think that will result in any large type of settlement. Anyone know anything about copyright settlements?

Didn't [H] remove these images at Infinium's request? If so, I can't see that they can make a big deal about it. I believed that they also changed a couple of other parts of the article too, contrary to what Infinium are claiming.

 

[MfA]

Personally I think if Infinium Labs calls their potential investors to the stands and they say that the reason why they walked away from investing in Infinium Labs was because of Kyle's article, then that should be enough.

Enough for what? Certainly not to proove libel.

Can Infinium even get rewarded damages if they proove defamation without it really being libel? That doesnt even exist as a a crime in some states in the US I gather ... and he will probably get heightened first amendment protection as a member of the media too right?

How can you say you would vote guilty without even knowing the exact charges? The question is not wether he is guilty of being an asshole remember, but wether he broke the law in Florida ... I dont think you are fit for jury duty

 

[Cutter]

I seem to recall a while back some pictures put out by someone from Infinium of a "working" Phantom unit and a child actually playing games on it. Of course, the pictures, showed a kid with a wireless logitech gamepad and the console sitting in front of the tv. Who knows what was really playing on the tv...

Anyways, if they had a working unit, and it was capable of playing PC games over the tv, you would think that it would be more effective in attracting investors than Kyle's article was in scaring them away.

And in agreement with Dig, most of the meat of Kyle's article was info gleaned from the guy's own resume.

Just think. If Kyle hadn't written his article, we could all be playing really kewl games like SOF2 and Half Life on our TVs at dumbed down resolutions and semi-playable speeds. Actually, we could be DREAMING about playing them, since we'd still be downloading the damned things...