Impact of nVidia Turing RayTracing enhanced GPUs on next-gen consoles *spawn

[vipa899]

So the extra memory bandwidth won't have an effect? I highly doubt a Rx 580 (a Rx 570 even Rx 480 was mentioned in his first post) will give you the same performance at 4k.

For the RX480 i meant the PS4 Pro, about, thats why i wrote RX480/580. Even though i think the 480 is more capable then a Pro, A 470 is around a Pro if i remember correctly.
A RX580 is around the same ballpark as a 1060 6GB, DF mentioned in some game that the 1060 system was actually the better performer. A 1060 is generally faster then a RX580 in most games.
What you seem to forget is that the One X version of RDR2 is running a 30fps, with dips way below that in some cases. A RX580 system could easily do that and more if coded well.

Oh and, One X gpu might have more BW, but the RX580 has other advantages, one of them is 8GB just for video ram, which might come in handy at those native 4k resolutions. Clock speed is higher, too.
Where-ever i read and see, the 580 is considered the better gpu compared to One X gpu, most put it somehow closer to a RX570. If a game allready performs about the same on pc as console, with in mind that consoles are having the advantage of being a closed-box machine, a RX570 cant be far from whats in there.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Here's an example of their tech apparently :

 

[Ike Turner]

View attachment 2710

Wasn't it already known that this is simply SSR and that Guerrilla just called it that way (RT instead of SSR) just to sound fancy? SSR always has a ray tracing component.

See page 143 for Remedy's SSR implementation : https://www.dropbox.com/s/hnwawn0msvojfp6/SIGGRAPH_2015_Remedy_Notes_FINAL.pdf?dl=0

Or DICE's SSR papers from a while back.

 

[chris1515]

What's it already known that this is simply SSR and that Guerrilla just called it that way (RT instead of SSR) just to sound fancy? SSR always has a ray tracing component.

Yes it is just SSR...

 

[AlNom]

The rays go marching step by step hoo ray, hoo ray

 

[milk]

...with screen artifacts
and alphas messed-up
and nothing behind
the camera shows up
and they all complain when
the Rays go marching hooome

 

[Recop]

Apparently, it's not the standard SSR technique but an improved one at least :

Here you have a comparison between standard SSR and SSR with ray traced glossy reflections.

Also, Nvidia speaks about this technique in this link : https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2018/03/19/whats-difference-between-ray-tracing-rasterization/

"And to help game developers take advantage of these capabilities, NVIDIA also announced the GameWorks SDK will add a ray tracing denoiser module. The updated GameWorks SDK, coming soon, includes ray-traced area shadows and ray-traced glossy reflections."

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Oh and, One X gpu might have more BW, but the RX580 has other advantages, one of them is 8GB just for video ram, which might come in handy at those native 4k resolutions.

Scorpio has 9GB for games. The overwhelming majority of it is for graphics, of course. The RX580 isn't really at an advantage here.

Clock speed is higher, too.

It's 40 CUs @ 1172MHz on Scorpio vs. 36CUs @ 1340MHz on RX580.
6.000 TFLOPs on Scorpio vs. 6.175 TFLOPs on RX 580.

Where-ever i read and see, the 580 is considered the better gpu compared to One X gpu, most put it somehow closer to a RX570.

Where have you seen that? The Scorpio / XBoneX has 6 TFLOPs vs. RX570's 5.1 TFLOPs, similar clockspeeds on the ROP domain and 102GB/s (46%) more bandwidth.
Whomever is claiming the RX570 is closer to a XboneX than a RX580 is probably very wrong.

 

[Ike Turner]

Apparently, it's not the standard SSR technique but an improved one at least :

Here you have a comparison between standard SSR and SSR with ray traced glossy reflections.

Also, Nvidia speaks about this technique in this link : https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2018/03/19/whats-difference-between-ray-tracing-rasterization/

"And to help game developers take advantage of these capabilities, NVIDIA also announced the GameWorks SDK will add a ray tracing denoiser module. The updated GameWorks SDK, coming soon, includes ray-traced area shadows and ray-traced glossy reflections."

There are now as many forms of SSR implementations as there are game engines.. There's no really" standard "SSR" anymore so Guerrilla, Remedy, Dice, Crystal Dynamics, Naughty Dog, Ubi Soft, Epic etc etc all have their own twist on it (and now all involve "tracing rays"..).
But your link has effectively nothing to with SSR at all.. It is only PR talk about pure RT reflections which are not screen space dependent and require DXR.

 

[vipa899]

Scorpio has 9GB for games. The overwhelming majority of it is for graphics, of course. The RX580 isn't really at an advantage here.

Having 8gb just for gfx alone should be more then one x unless a game like rdr2 just needs 1gb for game logic.
On pc its normal to have 16gb main ram aside 580s 8gb. Didnt DF say something about low res textures across all consoles?

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Having 8gb just for gfx alone should be more then one x unless a game like rdr2 just needs 1gb for game logic.

What else do games have that take space? Sound and AI scripts and.. ?
Those don't take a lot of RAM and can even be streamed from storage.

Didnt DF say something about low res textures across all consoles?

Low-res textures can be a texture filtrate problem, and here the Polaris cards offer no advantage.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes it is just SSR...

Hmm, looks like you're right. It's certainly not as described - 'true' raytraced glossy reflections. In the 'rain' example you can see reflections of lights that aren't present...

 

[function]

It's 40 CUs @ 1172MHz on Scorpio vs. 36CUs @ 1340MHz on RX580.
6.000 TFLOPs on Scorpio vs. 6.175 TFLOPs on RX 580.

And that's for peak boost clocks on the 580, which aren't maintained in demanding games. Typically, it fluctuates below 6tf while the 1X maintains an absolute rock solid 6. And that's not mentioning the 1X's sizeable BW advantage which will keep the execution units better fed - and we know BW can be a factor in demanding multiplatform games.

The 580 simply can't maintain the performance of the 1X.

Whomever is claiming the RX570 is closer to a XboneX than a RX580 is probably very wrong.

Very much so!

 

[vipa899]

Shouldnt the one x gpu be compared to Vega 64 instead, since that was/is amd's high end gpu, that launched some months before One X?
Or isnt one x gpu amd's high end chip?

Vega 64 and 56 dwarfs one x gpu.

 

[Xbat]

Shouldnt the one x gpu be compared to Vega 64 instead, since that was/is amd's high end gpu, that launched some months before One X?
Or isnt one x gpu amd's high end chip?

Vega 64 and 56 dwarfs one x gpu.

You the one who compared it to a RX580/480

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why is anyone comparing PC GPUs to current consoles GPUs in a thread about Turing and raytracing hardware?

 

[vipa899]

You the one who compared it to a RX580/480

Yeah i did, its because many do around the net since a 580 is closest in performance. Its based on a old architecture though, and wasnt really a high end chip, it competet against nvidias 1060, and in general, lost.

Vega was avaible quite some time before One X and is amd's (attempt) to the high end market again.
Vega has one x beat in about all areas, and 8gb hbm2 (2048bit) just to games isnt too shabby, dont know how much one x's games use but i doubt its a full 8gb for games like rdr2. 64cu's, a baseclock @1247 and boost to 1546.
At over 12tf its more then twice as powerfull.

 

[DavidGraham]

The 580 simply can't maintain the performance of the 1X.

It can in most situations, as the RX 580 often does have bigger pixel fillrate even at the base clock than the X1X. So that helps at higher resolutions. The 1060 has significantly more pixel fill rate than both of them, at the expense of it's texture rate. The 1060/580 are often paired with a significantly more powerful CPU, like an i5 or a Ryzen 5, which helps too. Especially in CPU limited situations, which are extensively found in most games, especially open world ones.

In the end, systems with both the 1060 and 580 end up being equal to the X1X in the vast majority of titles.

 

[lefantome]

Anyway supposing that the Guerrilla ray traced reflections become the standard next gen, I really don't see what's the point of using full ray tracing for reflections only unless it's going to be the only thing the hardware is capable of.
But the benefit, in 95% of cases, is not that noticeable.

I absolutely hate baked lighting.
Yeah these day it works very well but it has a big memory footprint and it's not that good in many cases and not versatile.
I hope we will have realtime solutions for next gen.

Games are getting bigger, RDR2 is 100GB and memory is becoming a problem.

 

[Ike Turner]

Anyway supposing that the Guerrilla ray traced reflections become the standard next gen,

It is SSR like in 90% of the games out now. It is already "standard".