Johnny Awesome
Veteran
On a big screen 720p is a must IMO.
I'm more interested in 480p PS3 games than 1080p PS3 games
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
- Start date
TV size is all important. On my 24" TV, I can barely see the pixels from my couch. Games with good anti-aliasing look fantastic. I just don't think HD at the same screen size would change things much, especially not 720p with no AA. I think it's really all about the pixel size. As people get interested in buying bigger and bigger TVs, they start to notice the IQ problems with low resolution that they just plain don't notice at low screen diameters...just like how people don't really notice that PSP and DS run well below even SD resolutions.
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I don't feel it's a must, but my Cube / PS2 / Xbox does look crappy on a HD projector.
Halo 2 on my 360 looks a lot better already though. So I'm still thinking on this one...
Suppose this is a similar debate to the oblivion HDR or AA. And personally, oblivion at higher resolution or with AA on looks a hell of a lot better than it does with HDR.
And it goes for all games, playing them at 1080p makes them look significantly better even if you have to disable a few features which you could have on at 480, the compromise of fidelity is just not worth it.
Same for films as well, theres just no comparison between DVD and HD, its the better quality thats making people buy the newer HD tv's, not just because sony or some other company are saying there better, you can see the difference and once youve seen it 480 simply looks terrible.
And it goes for all games, playing them at 1080p makes them look significantly better even if you have to disable a few features which you could have on at 480, the compromise of fidelity is just not worth it.
Same for films as well, theres just no comparison between DVD and HD, its the better quality thats making people buy the newer HD tv's, not just because sony or some other company are saying there better, you can see the difference and once youve seen it 480 simply looks terrible.
Uhm that's not really a valid comparison, because from DVD to HDDVD, you get the same level of detail but with a much higher fidelity - so you actually see more detail. You don't lower "settings" like you would in games to get a higer resolution at acceptable framerates. So, it's not the same thing.
Um, no. HD-DVD hasn't been driving the sales of HDTV because it just came out, and most people haven't watched HD movies, either. And don't forget that lots and lots of people watch SD content over composite or RF, which really hurts the picture quality. A DVD in progressive scan looks a heck of a lot better than one plugged into your VCR, which then runs over an RF cable to your 1997 televesion.
That's why I think the downscaling option is a fair compromise. For SD users they get much improved IQ on the same game, and lose that last-gen jaggie+shimmer look, while still getting the same game experience, without devs having to bang their heads over a second engine to do the same basic job.
To date I think anyone who's looking at XB360 as an example might be left with a rather bitter taste in their mouth as an SD user because it looks like it's games aren't downscaling and that HD performance is being lost on SD owners. I don't know how that has changed with more recent titles. If that's fixed and we got the originally intended experience, I don't think anyone would even be questioning the worth of rendering at HD resolutions, except super tech-heads who overanalyze everything
... But who cares when it looks like crap?
Watching SDTV is like smearing vasoline all over your screen, it looks horrible, and frankly, I don't even browse through any SD channels anymore. For that matter, I haven't seriously played a console in awhile (don't have a 360 yet) just because the resolution is so low.
Bigus Dickus
Regular
1080p has - 2,073,600 pixels
720p has - 921,600
480p has - 307,200
The PS3 may support 1080p output, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for a ton of games rendered at that resolution, and the ones that are will almost certainly lack AA.
Megadrive1988
Veteran
this post makes a huge amount of sense. good & interesting perspective.
" Lots of people would love to have graphics like Finding Nemo, even if it means playing in 480p"
-very, very true. me included of course.
"but HD is the "new thing" and everyone is working their asses off to try and get as much revenue out of the brand name"
understood.
I pretty much knew all of this, in the back of my mind, but wasn't really focused on the reality that HD is this massive profit engine, which X360, PS3 are apart of, that is taking precedence over massively better graphics.
Megadrive1988
Veteran
... But who cares when it looks like crap?
Watching SDTV is like smearing vasoline all over your screen, it looks horrible, and frankly, I don't even browse through any SD channels anymore. For that matter, I haven't seriously played a console in awhile (don't have a 360 yet) just because the resolution is so low.
though my point was, for realtime graphics, concidering the limitations of even the most powerful GPUs, lower resolution can allow for superior graphics.
no question that in terms of tv shows, live broadcasts and films, SDTV is vastly inferior to HDTV.
I think some heads would turn if a 480p or even 480i game was made that had near-offline/prerendered-grade visuals but in realtime. but I was reminded that the reality now is all about HD HD HD HD HD HD HD HD HD and more HD
Megadrive1988
Veteran
I'm completely with you on that.
I've been playing alot of OutRun 2006 (60fps, @ 480i) on Xbox and PGR3 (30fps, ~600p) on Xbox 360.
guess which game is more visually appealing for me
the whole point of this thread is, the best possible "not yet made" realtime (or "already out there" prerendered) graphics at 480p (even 480i) with lots of good AA, high amounts of geometry, lots of shaders, wide variety of high quality textures, incredible lighting, etc, moving at 60fps beat the pants off of existing 720p / 1080i / 1080p realtime graphics (X360, PS3) that are running at 30fps (or less) with 4x or no anti-aliasing and only moderately better than last-gen console geometry, textures, lighting, etc.
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Megadrive1988
Veteran
sorry, not overly impressed. yeah looks 'nice' but, well, it looks like God Of War with better textures, lighting, more geometry and yet, only 30fps. I realize PS2 could not do this, nor could Xbox or Gamecube, but, its only a moderate improvement over the best of last-gen, in terms of visuals, and a downgrade in framerate over the best of last-gen.
though my point was, for realtime graphics, concidering the limitations of even the most powerful GPUs, lower resolution can allow for superior graphics.
no question that in terms of tv shows, live broadcasts and films, SDTV is vastly inferior to HDTV.
I think some heads would turn if a 480p or even 480i game was made that had near-offline/prerendered-grade visuals but in realtime. but I was reminded that the reality now is all about HD HD HD HD HD HD HD HD HD and more HD
You're contemplating a hypothetical situation, though. SD resolution won't buy as much performance as you might think.
LOL!
First of all, you really can't judge games by videos or screenshots posted online. Dead Rising for 360 looks substantially better in real life as opposed to what I saw online.
Second of all, Heavenly Sword still has months and months of development. I agree, it doesn't look that impressive to me at this point, but all I've seen is beta screenshots and video of the exact same level. I'm sure there has been a substantial amount of improvement in the game, and seeing the completed product in real life is the only way to really get the best effect. Hell, even after the panning Sony got at E3, most people said that Heavenly Sword was the best looking game at E3, and from the videos I saw I was NOT impressed. I do know, though, that Ninja Theory will deliver.
Thirdly, whoever thinks that they should make games in 480p should be shot. I have a 46" TV, and I would rather gouge my eyes out than play a game in 480. If you say that HD content is not that impressive, or unecessary, you obviously aint seen any HD content. I got HDTV about 2 years ago, and it's so friggen gorgeous, I sometimes will sit and watch Sunrise Earth on Discovery Channel, which is simply a show where they put a camera out in the middle of nowhere and film the sun rising in different places on the planet. HD is honestly another level of viewing content. Once you actually experience it, you'll wonder what you ever did without it. It's like comparing dial-up to broadband.
Second of all, Heavenly Sword still has months and months of development. I agree, it doesn't look that impressive to me at this point, but all I've seen is beta screenshots and video of the exact same level. I'm sure there has been a substantial amount of improvement in the game, and seeing the completed product in real life is the only way to really get the best effect. Hell, even after the panning Sony got at E3, most people said that Heavenly Sword was the best looking game at E3, and from the videos I saw I was NOT impressed. I do know, though, that Ninja Theory will deliver.
Thirdly, whoever thinks that they should make games in 480p should be shot. I have a 46" TV, and I would rather gouge my eyes out than play a game in 480. If you say that HD content is not that impressive, or unecessary, you obviously aint seen any HD content. I got HDTV about 2 years ago, and it's so friggen gorgeous, I sometimes will sit and watch Sunrise Earth on Discovery Channel, which is simply a show where they put a camera out in the middle of nowhere and film the sun rising in different places on the planet. HD is honestly another level of viewing content. Once you actually experience it, you'll wonder what you ever did without it. It's like comparing dial-up to broadband.
There's a pithy comment to be made here, but honestly, I think it kinda makes itself.
You're forgetting that you're on a forum where pretty much everyone has been playing PC games at ridiculous resolutions for a long time. It's not like we don't know what a video game at 1600x1200 looks like and have just been playing our Fairchild Channel F systems on 200-lb 17" black-and-white CRTs all this time.
Furthermore, I somehow doubt your SD television is a digital 480p signal. The quality of analog cable television signals is pretty bad and not comparable to a DVD or video game running in progressive scan. Your television watching habits are pretty much irrelevant to this discussion, because SDTV signals almost all have horrible quality. We can all boot up our PCs and compare 1024x768 to 640x480.
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